[00:00] Valerie Beck: Rise, renew, reconnect. Welcome back to from the Ashes, where every story ignites hope and healing. Today I have my first ever returning guest, Michael Green, a meditation teacher, Ayurvedic practitioner and writer based in Ubud, Bali. Michael was a guest on last season's episode rewriting How Ayurveda and Meditation Paved a Way to Peace. Now we're back to continue the conversation on the secrets to health and happiness according to the ancient wisdoms. If you love getting deep into the philosophy of living a peaceful, fulfilled life, you're going to nerd out hard. I'm your host, Valerie Huang Beck. Enjoy this episode of from the Ashes and the Fire.
[00:53] Valerie Beck: All right, so I've got Michael Green here and we're just going to jump right into it. We're here to talk about Ayurveda as well as all things holistic health. So let's go into this Prakriti Vikrati thing that we are just talking about because I want to hear what's on your mind and then I'll kind of explain backwards what we were talking about before.
[01:12] Michael Green: Awesome. Well, great to see you again and great to be back. So with the Prakruti and Vikruti thing. So I mean, maybe it's necessary to sort of lay a groundwork in just like a one sentence explanation of what it is. Prakruti is typically considered your original creation that happens at the time of conception in Ayurveda, the ancient textbooks say that it's when the sperm meets the egg as your original dosha or creation is formed. Vikruti is more of your present state, situation or imbalance. So it can be something that's a bit more persistent, like an imbalance that's persisted over the years or something that, you know, you picked up last week at the, at the Taylor Swift concert or something like that. So what I find, and not only in my clients, but in my own life, is that and this was one of the big aha moments for me in Ayurveda where like the dosha thing really started to click into place. Is that what you mentioned earlier or just a few minutes ago about someone's personality? You know, it's like how you were as a kid or a teenager and then sort of how your personality changes and adapts to society over the course of your life. What I see a lot, and this was the case in my own life but also in people where it's like if your vikruti or your imbalance has been persistent for some time, then you can mistake that for your prakruti. You can mistake sort of sedimentary or sort of stubborn vikruti for who you actually are. But in reality, it's just an imbalance that has persisted either through, you know, lifestyle or diet or whatever it is. Relationships work. Like for just. For example, when, when I was living, I lived in New York for 13 years and I was working in the hospitality industry. I was staying up very late. I was drinking a lot, I was eating sugar. You know, I go to sleep at 2am regularly and it was very cold. I wasn't taking vitamin D. I was just not. I was a vegan, vegetarian. You know, I just became like very high vata person. And the same thing kind of continued when I got to Los Angeles, which is a very dry climate and it's also colder than people think. So when I discovered Ayurveda and I started to get healthier and more integrated, I thought that I was high vata individual. But then as I reduced my vata and got my vata into balance, my natural sort of pitta started to come through. And I was like, oh my God, I'm like half vaat. You know, I'm like 60% probably Vata, but a lot of pitta. But that pitta was like invisible for a long time because I was so imbalanced and I was eating out of balance with. With vata and living out of balance. But I hadn't mistaken my prakruti for a vikruti. And I see this a lot in people. And it's very common with people who are. Have been overweight for a long time who think that they're a kapha prakruti, when in reality it's a. It's just an imbalance that's persisted for a long time. And this is common because, you know, in the US it's like 70% of people are obese or overweight, which is a huge number. So it's a super important topic in Ayurveda. So people who are just starting out and just beginning don't get confused about who they actually are. You know, your essence and then what you're talking about, like the personality, I mean, that's like even more fascinating. You know, the body, it's like, you know, tactile. You can see it in the mirror. But the personality as it changes and adapts and evolves over time, that's super interesting. And it's something that. I'm really happy you brought that up because I'll probably be thinking about it all day after the call, how much, you know, my personality adapted and. And sort of compromised itself just to, you know, fit in into all these places that I was, you know, trying to adapt to. And probably it will always be the case, you know, but it's a super fascinating topic.
[05:42] Valerie Beck: Yes, it is. Let me give you a little bit more to chew on too, with this, because I think there is a lot to be said about this and. And also just kind of like the. The fact that we perceive ourselves and our unhealthy patterns as fact. Right. And I think there's something we're taught to do. And going back to the New York example, it's like, I'm a New Yorker. I, you know, I eat all this sugar. Like I eat bagels and have coffee for breakfast. I've. I've lived that life too. And I'm just like, I know a lot of people who will swear by it because that's like their patterning. And it doesn't matter if it makes them unhealthy until it's really way too late to realize, like, that was just your conditioning. And you had a choice all along, if you allowed yourself to see that you had a choice. And the first. I think part of this reversing it, if you would like to, is. Is the awareness part. And I had one of my coaching clients the other day ask me, like, oh, my God, like, I've been, you know, is there any. At any point can I be back to my Prakriti? Because there are so many imbalances. And I think one thing that we need to keep in mind when we're talking about Prakriti is it's. It's kind of like an ideal, because as soon as you start dividing the womb, you're already being exposed to outside forces.
[07:09] Michael Green: As soon as you start dividing, the.
[07:11] Valerie Beck: Your cells start dividing in the womb. Right. As soon as you're conceived and, like, you start growing, you're already susceptible to the external world. It's already influencing you. Therefore, are you ever really in Prakriti?
[07:27] Michael Green: Right. Yeah. I love that. I love that idea. That's beautiful. That's also something to deeply consider. And, you know, in the. In the, like, the Buddhist sense, it's like there's relative and absolute form. You know, it's like the absolute sort of non, dual godhead. But then there's all this relativity, you know, the physical body and our Personalities and stuff, and they're both equally true. But I do love that idea of the Prakruti being an ideal, because in a sense, you're right, it is kind of an ideal. And it is like almost like the, you know, the sun and then the Earth is this kind of evolving around the sun. And the Earth could be your Vikirti. It's just always moving and always changing. But you have this sort of center core, which is the access which your Vikruti spins around. It's super interesting. And one thing I always like to joke about to my New Yorker friends is like, everybody in New York, or the overwhelming majority, people are anxious maniacs, right? But since everybody's an anxious maniac, it's so hyper normalized, and nobody can see that everybody's sick because everybody has a disease and everybody. It's all normal, right? So until you actually get out and you look back, you're like, oh, my God, what the hell? I was just on, like crack for over a decade, you know, until you actually get into nature, you start slowing down a little bit, at least for me was like, oh, my God, I was out of my mind. But everybody's out of their mind, so it's super normal. And nobody really knows. Nobody can see it.
[09:06] Valerie Beck: Well, to give people context, Michael's now in Bali. I'm in Bali surrounded by rice fields and. And nature. So a very different context indeed.
[09:17] Michael Green: Yeah, I mean, I spent 20 years in cities. New York and then LA, and they were amazing, great teachers. I love cities. I love great coffee and good, you know, like you said bagels once in a while, but. But, you know, honestly, nature's more my jam. But it's also imperfect here. It's like I wake up to this beautiful view over the rice fields. But this morning, I get out there on the balcony and there's a guy spraying pesticides all over the rice fields, like, super close to me. So it's like, you know, it's just imperfect. Life is, as the Buddhists would like to say, unsatisfactory. And no matter where you are, something is going to. You know, it's. There's always going to be something. And that's just a fact. That's just a fact of life. I wish it weren't so. Wasn't so, but that's the way it is.
[10:10] Valerie Beck: I was reflecting on this as well, because I might be moving soon. I can't say where just yet, but I know that right now I am living with the knowledge that where I am, which is la, is giving Me, an imbalance. And I've had this imbalance since I got here. And I've been doing my best to mitigate the effects of living in a crazy place like this and knowing that I. There's only so much I can do. And I think I've. Part of me has learned to give myself grace. But finding the balance of like, being proactive and then also acknowledging reality has been a big part of that journey. And I think it's. It's really important though, that we do have perspective, because I wouldn't, like you said, like, everyone in New York is sick, but they wouldn't know it until they left. Right. And so I wouldn't know this unless I have had experiences of living in other places and giving myself the chance to expand my view a little bit.
[11:13] Michael Green: What would you say is the, like, a fundamental nature of the imbalance? Is it mostly like, is it would be physical or mental or emotional that you sort of tuned into from like, Southern California?
[11:27] Valerie Beck: I think for me it is mostly emotional, spiritual, because I've. I've gone to great lengths to balance myself here. And when I got here, I was already. I came from New York City, I was already out of bonds, like a lot. I'm pretty sure when I got here I was already deeply depressed. And so I've used the principles of Ayurveda to kind of hack a little bit to allow myself to get to stability by looking at the physical patterns, knowing that a lot of the source of my pain is more of that emotional, spiritual. But it has worked because, you know, we all need that base of homeostasis, a place where we can kind of slowly build ourselves back up. And doing the physical practices of like the self massage, like eating the right foods has been really helpful to get me to a place of stability.
[12:27] Michael Green: Yeah, yeah. Well, it's like we're all affected by where we live. I mean, this may sound incredibly obvious, but one of the core themes of my Ayurveda practice is really tapping into the incredibly obvious, that it's so obvious people overlook it. And like, a good example of this is, is chewing your food. You know, it's like something that is absolutely so simple and fundamental to a healthy diet, but the overwhelming majority of people are ignorant of this fact. And I can't tell you how many people I've seen with gut problems who've been to specialists and gastroenterologists and they're diagnosed with IBS or constipation or whatever it is, and all they needed to do was chew their food and maybe drink ginger tea or something like that. So I love playing in the territory of just utter simplicity. That's like as they say in, in the Buddhist or the Tibetan Buddhist world, it's like so simple, the mind refuses to believe it. So close, we cannot see it. So clear, we look right through it and too good to be true. You know, it's just these simple, simple, simple, simple, simple things. But when it comes to the city and like, I look at it as like, or like the town or wherever you live, I look at it as like in a Vastu perspective. You know, it's like we in Vastu and Ayurveda is like the design of your home, right? It's like the design of your space and your home or your apartment or whatever, wherever you live, it will condition you in a certain way. Like the home will sort of gradually, especially if you stay in it, you know, for over the years, it will gradually condition you. Whether it's the flow of energy or whether you have a mold problem, or whether it's a cell phone tower outside your window, or whether you have a beautiful view, nourishing, nourishing view or all the combinations thereof. You know, the, the design of your home can really, will always influence you. And if you think about it, your home is sitting in this big town, this big city, and the city will influence you. It's just absolutely in like inescapable and just like you can just kind of, you know, gradually zoom out and zoom out. And lately I've been in more and just totally mind blown and fascinated by astrology. You know, it's something that I kind of ignored and dismissed for a long time, mostly because I didn't really understand it and I could only kind of grok and metabolize certain things at once. But now it's just like totally astonishing and mind blowing to me that like the time and the place where you're born, the alignment of the planet can influence your life and not only slightly, but like to a major, major degree. I mean that just totally shreds my mind how that's even possible. And it's a huge part of Ayurveda, the Joseph, the Vedic astrology. But if something so distant has such a major impact on your life, then something so present and visceral like the place where you live, can also majorly impact your life. Whether it's your home or whether it's your town or whether it's, you know, Ubud or Los Angeles, it will all have an influence. So it's really up to us to really sober up and like take a good look at this and really get proactive as far as mitigating the negative effects and enhancing the positive qualities. And this is the beauty I see. And it's really unfolding over the years with Ayurveda. It's like even last night I was giving this presentation and as I'm talking I'm like, holy, holy crap. I'm just like seeing something for the first time. You know, if like Ayurveda is like a holistic, you know, root cause medicine where it's like, it's not just the thyroid and the liver and the gallbladder and that are just separate systems or you know, know, specialties for an endocrinologist, endocrinologist or something like that. They're all working together. So. But in Ayurveda, you know, you have the, you have herbs, you have toxicology, you have jyotish, you have yoga, you have pranayama, you have dinacharya, rutacharya, you have gemstones, you have everything that works together in a holistic manner that contributes to the health and vitality of your organism. And it is such like a, an all inclusive, encompassing sort of network that is all valid and each area can be a lifetime of study and a specialty. And that's why I just. Ayurveda continues to just blow my mind. And I'm just so, so grateful that I happened to stumble into it.
[17:22] Valerie Beck: Yeah. And I, I've realized that we can choose our specialty. Right. And so, and I think allowing ourselves to choose, especially to, allows us to do that deep dive. And it kind of has happened because Ayurveda is so vast. You could, you could study it for a long time, but then you would just be studying and then never actually have an impact. So I want to ask you how or what direction you have taken your practice since the last time we've spoken. Because I know we both have put a lot of emphasis on mental health and. Yeah, I want to see where you've gone with that.
[17:58] Michael Green: Well, one thing that's really taken off for me, I think the last time we spoke were probably coming up on a year and I remember talking a lot about self compassion and self criticism back then. And that is still a huge, important, hugely important topic. But I've sort of just come gotten deeper into that and deeper into understanding that the, you know, like I teach meditation also and when I first started teaching meditation and doing Ayurveda, I kind of saw them as two separate modalities, you know, it's like, okay, I have this mindfulness thing and you know, Tibetan Buddhism and then I have this Ayurveda thing and like they're kind of separate, you know, separate tax. But now it's like they've so thoroughly like the Venn diagram instead of just being a tiny little overlap in the middle, they're almost like on top of each other and they're almost like becoming the same thing. Because what's becoming more and more and more and more apparent to me is that most physical ailments in the body, not all, but most, they come from choices and habits and stress and anxiety and trauma. And that's all in the mind. It's all about our reactions, it's all about our choices. And this is just so astounding and continues to be this never ending topic rabbit hole of research and case studies where everything in the body is almost dependent on our, the way we view things, how we react to things, how we treat ourselves, our self criticism or self forgiveness and all of this stuff and how it is like so unbelievably core and central to the health of the organism and not just like a woo sort of parapsychology situation that a lot of the western medical paradigm likes to poo poo it as you know, it is absolutely core and integral. And even now like western west, they say in Western medicine it's like 70 to 80% of visits to the doctor and the ER are from stress and anxiety. I mean just think about that. That's the majority of visit in the US at least. I don't know about the world are stress related. And the stress symptom, whether it's a stomach ulcer or you know, constipation or whatever, it will manifest different for the different dosha, your different prakruti and your vikruti. So Ayurveda is a root cause medicine, right? And even Charaka in the textbook says removing the cause is and of itself the best treatment. So if I'm an Ayurvedic practitioner and working with people under like hanging out a shingle under this vast tradition, then it's like an ethical imperative for me to sort of, you know, get into the fascia of like what's happening. And it's not. I mean unfortunately it's like, okay, high blood pressure, okay, take this herb. But like what's happening? Why do you have high blood pressure? What's the stress? What's the underlying source of the stress? And so I find most people, like most clients are generally open and willing to kind of, you know, dip their toes into this territory. Yeah, but not, not everyone. Some people just want, you know, what should I eat? And, you know, what's right for my. My pitta or whatever. And that's, that's important, diet's important, but it's really nowhere near as important as the mental health and the choices that we make. And it's all. And when you really distill and distill and distill and distill and reduce and reduce and reduce and reduce, it all comes back to that choice, that prajna prada, which I probably talked about last time, but that is just everything. And for, for anyone listening, prajna parada, it's basically translates to intellectual blasphemy or crimes against wisdom. Where like the, you know, the classic example is like, if you, you know, you go to the freezer and get ice cream and then you start streaming a show, and then you keep eating the ice cream and then, you know, episode two episod, and you go to bed late and you wake up with a tummy ache. According to this concept in Ayurveda, it's not the ice cream or the TV or the late bedtime that contributed to your tummy ache or your fatigue. It's the choice you keep making, bite after bite and episode after episode, to keep eating and streaming when you know how you'll feel in the morning. So that's the choice. It's the root cause. And that is something that I just cannot stop thinking on because the implications not only for health, but just like my life, are so enormous, it can even be crazy making, you know, it's like, okay, should I zig or should I zag? Should I eat at this restaurant today? Maybe I'll run into someone who I'll, you know, change my life. And if I go to that restaurant, maybe I'll just be reading, you know, my Kindle, and then maybe I'll find some, you know, some fact in this book I'm reading on seed oils or something that will help some. Who knows? It's like every choice that we make, it has enormous downstream consequences and it really is mind blowing to deeply consider. And the consequences or the actions can be positive, negative, neutral, and even the negative actions. Okay, that, that is ultimately, you know, if you look at it from a meditation perspective, it's the obstacles that make us stronger. You know, the obstacles that if we view them correctly as allies, they can be forces for our own evolution. So it's just an endlessly fascinating topic. So that's to a long winded answer of like the territory that I'm really deeply infatuated with. And I don't really see it ending because I don't really think I'll ever come to a sort of, you know, understanding that is satisfying to me, you know?
[24:38] Valerie Beck: Yeah. I love how the simplest shlokas or the simplest, like phrases in Ayurveda and yoga as well, can be the most profound ones. Because the one that you talked about, Prajnaparadha, is one of three causes of disease that are mostly coming from choices in behavior, mostly just movements of the mind as well. And just so that we can review it for our audience too, we're talking about the three causes of disease. Pranaya Purana is one of them. Right. The doing what you know you shouldn't do because it's going to have negative consequences and doing it anyway. And then we have asamindriyardha, sam Yoga, which is misuse of the senses. Right. And so in a healthy body, healthy mind, we are able to use our senses to guide. But when we are out of balance or when there's some emotional thing driving us where we want to soothe ourselves or cope or even chase pleasure, then we will misuse our senses to latch onto that comfort. Right. And then the last one is pari Namaste. And that is has been interpreted in various different ways. But the way that I like to interpret it, because it's talking about time and motion is emotion of the mind, which has to do with perception of time and also stress.
[26:05] Michael Green: Oh, I've never heard number three phrased that way before because I always just interpreted it as like, you know, you know, seasonal vagaries or it's a winter, you make it, you may get a little, you know. So can you flesh out number three? That's super interesting to me.
[26:21] Valerie Beck: The reason why I flesh it out this way is because it's weird for it to be so passive in a set of rules that seems very pointed to human behavior and choices. Right. And so when it was first taught to me, it was taught to me in the sense of stress and this motion and the perception of time specifically, because when we are worried about the future or caught up in the past, we are moving time in a different way. And in fact, that that actually physically ages us quicker than if we were to actually be fully present. And this idea of being fully present, which we talk about so much in all sorts of meditation is so key actually to our health. It is, it's also one of those mind blowing concepts that if you actually understand what, you know, what people are trying to get at when you say, like, be present, is that, like, we are actually realizing whole, perfect, complete in the now. And by doing that, you absolve yourself of that feeling of lack, or, like, I'm not doing enough, all the anxieties that you could possibly have. And so that gets really profound. So I think that that interpretation of parama can actually be really helpful when it comes to knowing our choice in how time moves.
[27:42] Michael Green: Hmm. I love that. Thank you. I've never heard it phrased that way before because I would always. I would say that, you know, the three causes of disease, that intellectual blasphemy, misuse of the senses, and then, you know, time or seasons, I would always say, okay, the first two are obviously mental, right? And even number two, that the unholy contact of the senses. I mean, it could be folded into the prajna parada easily. You know, it could just be number one, prajna parad, and then number three. But I've never heard parnama explained that way before. And that's super, super, super fascinating, especially as a meditation teacher and, you know, in the business of getting people to be present, which is so, so funny. And something that's been really tripping me out lately is that in meditation, it's really. No matter what tradition you come from, what style you practice, it's all about being fully present. And whenever I'm teaching, whenever I'm working with someone, that's all I'm doing. And so, like, I feel like my whole job is. Is like this, like, smoke and mirrors and all these, like, fireworks and crystals to, like, direct people to this so utterly simple task of just being present in their bodies. And it's so crazy that, you know, using all of these stories and these, you know, these teachings and all of this work and study to just drop everything and just to be fully present. It's such a trip. I mean, it's such a trip to, like, work so hard for what is already here. And it just never. I mean, it's just so bizarre that it's like trying to get people and even myself. I'm certainly, like. Even though I've had a meditation practice for 20 years, I can be just as distracted and flighty as someone who started this morning. So it's like, also for myself, teaching for myself. But all of these clever ways of getting me and other people to do something that is just already here and that we don't really need to do anything. We just need to sit and, you know, STFU and stuff, you know, it's just. That's it. And it's so funny how the way of getting myself to sit in the way of getting myself or my students or my clients to do something so simple is almost like. In this intellectually appealing way where it's almost inflaming the problem and not alleviating it. You know what I mean? So it's like, it's such a bizarre and fascinating topic also, but it's directly correlated to, like, what you said. It's like just being fully present is such an asset and an ally to health. Because I don't know why this is. And this is another thing that continues to fascinate me. But there's something in the human, like wetwear or like this meat suit or like the contract where whatever is going on in the body, it just. It must be looked at and seen and understood and metabolized before it can get out of you. I mean, there are some people who don't really agree with that, where, you know, think you can sort of purge things without really knowing what they are. You know, I've. I've heard David Frawley in one of the books talks about it. He's like, it's not necessary to know if you've heard something, what it is, but you do need to feel it. You know, you do need to observe it and acknowledge it. Whatever it is, you don't know where it comes from. And why is that? That is so bizarre. Why do we need to look at something if it's just an energy or a pain in the belly or the solar plexus or a tightness? Why is that? What is that about the human body, that we need our observation and our attention on it before it can move? And at the end of the day, that's meditation. That's just being fully present with what is. And they're so intimately connected. The presence of meditation or mindfulness, however you want to describe it, and health and healing. And there's a beautiful quote I've been coming back to where it's like, acceptance is the only thing that kicks in the door of the present moment, and it's the only thing that ever will is just acceptance. And it doesn't mean you have to agree with it with what's happening, but just accept what is right now. You know, it's just, as they say, so simple, but not easy.
[32:51] Valerie Beck: If you're listening to this, I want you to know that you are a badass visionary. The world doesn't need A watered down version of you. It needs you fully alive, fully expressed, fully thriving. Club Phoenix is where we work together to help you break free from burnout and build a life on your own terms. If you're done playing small, book a call with me through my link in the show notes and let's make it happen today. Yeah, I'm going to bring in a few other phrases from the text that I think just point to this really well. So there's the I'll do one from yoga and I'll do one from Ayurveda. The one from Ayurveda is the word svastha, being settled in the self. And that is the definition in sans. Well, it's the word in Sanskrit for perfect health, but it literally means being settled in the self.
[33:49] Michael Green: Really amazing.
[33:51] Valerie Beck: And I really like how it was taught to me because it was taught to me in interpreting it two ways. Being settled in the self, as in lowercase self, like ego, and being settled in the self with a uppercase s. The higher self, the connection to the divine, which can, you know, you can interpret that in various ways, but I think it's really powerful to look at that because it's saying that it's important to be settled in this body, this unique vessel that has been granted to you as your experience on this earth in this lifetime. But also it is important for you to be connected to the greater whole, which is also yourself. So that's the first thing.
[34:37] Michael Green: That's incredible. I'm totally stealing that.
[34:42] Valerie Beck: Because you could tie that back into everything else we've been saying.
[34:46] Michael Green: Everything.
[34:47] Valerie Beck: Because if you're not settled into yourself, you're not se. Right. When we sit for meditation, that's what we're trying to do. And again, it is the simple thing that is so hard. And then the, the second one that I want to point out is the first line of the Yoga Sutras, which is that yoga is the remove. The removal of the fluctuations of the mind. I may be butchering that a little bit, but that's the gist, right? Yoga is chitta vritti, nirodhaha, and that's still cultivating the ability to be present in the here and now.
[35:20] Michael Green: That's the first line of Patanjali. Wow. I just got in invited to teach meditation for a few days on a yoga teacher training next month. So I'm totally gonna bring that and incorporate the first line of the Yoga Sutras into the teaching because it is something in the yoga world, admittedly for me is like a. A blank. I have Never, I have never just gotten deep into yoga. It just hasn't come into my field. But here in Ubud, it's like the yoga capital of the world. And there's yoga this and yoga that everywhere, but there's really isn't much meditation at all anywhere. And it's something that's pretty common. It's, it's like, even though I, I, I'm sure you may be able to quote the line, but Patanjali says, you know, the whole purpose of yoga is to get into meditation or to make you a better meditator. And that seems to be a bit lost in the asana world. So that is just, Whoa, such a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful thing. That's the opening line of the yoga sutras.
[36:30] Valerie Beck: Let me see. I, if I have my copy behind me. Yes, I do. Give me one second. Sure, yeah. Because when I was, I actually started doing yoga before I started Ayurveda, because that was the time when I was really struggling and I was getting into all of this and my Shala offered yoga sutra classes. And so the second teacher that I went to, she actually would break them down and we would discuss them, which is the way this is what was meant to be taught, actually is to have a teacher and have a discussion group. Okay, so the first line is actually, now we're going to talk about yoga, or now the exposition of yoga is being made. The second line is yogas chitta vritti nirodhah, the restraint of the modifications of the mind is yoga, which is another way of saying to remove the, the fluctuations of the mind is yoga.
[37:26] Michael Green: Yeah, beautiful, beautiful. And isn't it funny that all these traditions are pointing back to the same thing. Yoga, Buddha, Ayurveda, all pointing back to like they're all the arrows and like all the vectors are all going to like the same source, which is just to settle within yourself, to calm the mind, to calm the rajas, and to just be. And it's really amazing, really, just, just astounding when you really distill it all and it's all pointing to the same thing.
[38:04] Valerie Beck: I want to tie in another idea in here and maybe you can play with this along with me, because last time we chatted you were talking about how you've been teaching Ayurveda, but you've also been learning to, to not take yourself so seriously. Right. And I want to talk about that in the context of being present and how that has allowed you to maybe like open up or be more connected with what you are teaching.
[38:34] Michael Green: Well, one thing that is very important to keep in mind and something that I remind myself and I almost open every single talk or class that I teach with saying this, it's that when we're learning, the information we learn with will be tied to the feeling that it's learned with. So if we're having fun and like, we're engaged and we're super interested in laughing and taking it easy, the information we're learning it with will always be connected with that feeling of joy and playfulness. So, and this is pretty obvious when you look back on your life and you look back, let's just say high school and a really boring teacher. And I look back on really boring teachers and doesn't matter what they're teaching, it was just totally didn't stick, right? And teachers who were super engaging and funny and warm and made this topic interesting, you know, even though I didn't have an interest at the time in American history, you know, my teacher was amazing. So I got into it. And this can be obvious when you look back on your whole life. Like, anything you learn and you're having fun and you're enjoying it and you're meeting people and, you know, it's like a playful exercise. We just learn better. And we were just more excited and curious about the. About the topic. And this is something that I always try to, like, bring into whenever I'm talking because it's a lot more fun for me, it's a lot more fun for everybody else. And to just, you know, I think in the beginning it was like trying to be a little bit serious because I was also trying to take myself seriously. You know, I. There was like a bit of like an imposter syndrome. It's like, okay, this is a. Whether it's Buddhism or Ayurveda, it's like, okay, these are thousands of years old in traditions, and there are people who I've studied under that come from generations of teachers in thousands of years. And, you know, I learned it yesterday and here I am talking about it. So it's like there. This is like kind of shirt, like, collar tugging imposter syndrome. So I think, you know, getting serious about it was a way to like, you know, create a rigid sense of like a container for me to like, safely, I don't know, transmit the limited knowledge that I felt comfortable with. But I guess over time and I started to get more comfortable teaching and then studying and learning and practicing, I started to. It. Things just started to click with me on a certain. On a deeper level. And I started to get more comfortable. And it was also, like, my friend gave me some good advice. He's, you know, he came to one of my lectures, and he's like, yeah, you're just in your most natural element when you're just kind of being loose and free and easy and, you know, keeping it light. And I was like, that's so true. It's like, I have so much more fun when I'm just, like, cracking jokes and just taking it easy and, like, getting out of lecture mode. You know, it's like, now that. That to me is just. I don't want to say wrong, but it just feels, like, incongruent, and it feels like it's not in the best service to the traditions. And, you know, even last night, it's like people were saying, oh, that was. I usually. I gave a talk last night on. On Ayurveda and, like, herbs and gemstones and aromatherapy at a little place here, and people were like, oh, yeah, I usually just get so bored and fall asleep in lectures. But I was really into it. You know, it was, like, super interesting and fun. And I was like, oh, that's like, the best compliment I could have possibly received is just to make dry. Not necessarily dry, it's not dry at all. But make it. Present it in a way that's just fun and easy and light. You know, it's like the best way for it to stick and for the best way for people to. To get started. And. And also I really feel like, you know, the. You know, whether it's meditation or Ayurveda, it's like these traditions have so fundamentally altered and transformed the course of my life and continue to do so on a daily basis. It's like the gifts that keep on giving. So if someone is coming to me for the first time, and this happens actually a lot, where someone will come to a meditation class and, like, oh, never, you know, I don't know what meditation is. I'm just here because I had an hour to kill or something. And same with Ayurveda. People don't know anything about Ayurveda. So I have this, like, precious opportunity to, like, pass this flame of. Just plant this seed into people that. With something with, like, a wisdom or a practice that has the potential to revolutionize and change their lives. And I see that as, like, a really sacred opportunity and, like, a deep responsibility. And for me to, like, carry this, you know, delicate cup of water and, like, hand it to them without spilling anything is, like a task that is It's a bit tricky because everybody's different. But I find a formula that is actually most beneficial for most people is to just get people to relax and to just take it easy and play and have fun and to participate and to ask questions and to tell jokes, you know, and just to get everybody to drop some expectations or barriers, including myself, and to just transmit in the most light and easy and fun way possible. Because there are so many amazing, amazing practitioners and doctors and philosophers and scholars out there, but there aren't so many people who are great teachers also. You know, it's like that is a really hard mix to come by. I mean, we've all been there, you know, we've all gone to conferences with this, like, you know, brilliant people, and then they just lay an egg on stage or even in books. You know, you read books and there's so much great information in there, but it was just so boring that it's. It's just tough to read. You know, you see this in the academic world all the time. And I, you know, I read a lot and I really mine these books for information. But when someone can present something that is deeply profound and informative and can revolutionize my life and do it in a way that. That's entertaining and fun, that is just. It's very rare. So when it happens, I just have, like, a really deep respect for these people. But it's. It's rare. And I. I really strive to just. To just do that, you know, because it's just like. It's just the way it lands with so many people. Yeah, we're human beings. We learn through stories and play and, you know, connection.
[45:55] Valerie Beck: You know, I think one thing that I think is significant is that I. I really do believe that when a teacher can play and bring levity for the sake of the student, not. Not for themselves, it really removes their ego a bit. That makes the student more comfortable, too, because I. Yeah, I've. I've taken classes in a bunch of things, you know, whether it be dance or capoeira. And when. When someone is. They're allowing people to laugh and have fun while they're learning, you know, that they're not taking themselves too seriously and it's not about them, and that makes them more trustworthy, too. So I think there's a lot to be said in. In all of that.
[46:38] Michael Green: Totally.
[46:40] Valerie Beck: One of the last things that I wanted to bring up today is also because, you know, it sounds like you've been developing a lot over the past year or so is last time we talked. We talked about your writing, and you told us your story about how you had essentially burned out from writing when you were in New York. And that's kind of what started you on this path. And so last time we chatted, I learned that you were doing a novel. So I'd like to hear a little bit about that and also kind of your recovery process of how you've gotten back into writing.
[47:14] Michael Green: Well, just a quick recap. For almost 20 years, I was trying to make it as a writer. You know, I was waiting tables in the evening, and I wrote a couple novels and a few pilots and, you know, so many short things, but I was just never able to make a living at it. And I really got to the point where I realized, okay, you know, I've given this career everything. You know, I've. I've done the work. I've done all the boring, networky, businessy stuff. I've left everything on the table, and I can just walk away with a clean slate because I couldn't have worked harder. I couldn't have tried harder. And understanding that gave me lots of, like, ventilation, you know, where it's like, all right, you know, I. I gave it everything, and then it gave me really, like, this creative freedom to gracefully segue into, like, a new career, a new phase in my life. But the creative bug never really, you know, left me. And while I believe that to be a creative being, you don't need to paint a picture or dance or write a book or, you know, it's really about how we live our lives. It's about how much. How we treat people, it's how we breathe, it's how we walk, it's how we eat, it's how we are as people is, like, the ultimate creative act. How we raise our kids, whatever. So. But the creative drive just keeps going. And so now I'm. You know, I'm still writing. I'm. I'm sort of incorporating Ayurveda into a new novel, because there was one. One day when I was trailing Dr. J, as you remember, in the clinic in school, and I remember taking someone's pulse, and the pulse was so intense. This person was very unhealthy and lots of problems. And the pulse was so hard and spiky. And I remember all day long, I was just, like, wiping my fingers, like, on the wall and on my pants. It was like the pulse was, like, still on me. And over the years, I was like, what a. You know, I just started kind of writing what turned into a short story. And then now it's like a novel about a gifted Pulse reader who one day comes into the clinic and he can't get the pulses out of his body. And it becomes like this total, this story of. And he's already like a hot mess and an addict and sleepless, you know, in recovery. And he gets sort of possessed by these pulses. And what he has to do is in how he gets them out of his body is exactly what we were talking about where instead of, you know, saying, well, you have anxiety, so here's some ashwagandha or something, it's to really tell them that the deeper problem stems from, you know, what happened when you were five years old. There's still energy trapped in you or there's still trauma or you. Or utter lack of self compassion, self love. And to really get into like lift under the hood and get into their souls and their spirits is territory that the character is ultimately terrified of going to. So he has to develop these qualities in himself and, and the courage and the confidence to. In his own abilities. And that's how the pulses start to leave him. So really, it's really fun. And it's like I'm having a lot of fun writing it because previously I was just over disciplined. You know, it's been a minimum, certain amount of hours every day. Now it's like hour or two here and there, whatever, when I have time. And it's becoming just. It's this super fun process and, and I already have a rough draft, so I'm just, you know, making like some final tweaks and edits and it will be ready to take on a life of its own, whatever way, shape or form that may be.
[51:13] Valerie Beck: Yeah.
[51:13] Michael Green: So the whole creative process is, you know, in, in evolution as well.
[51:21] Valerie Beck: How long did it take before you started writing again after you stopped?
[51:26] Michael Green: Not long. Okay. Yeah, not long. Which is surprising to me. And I also have like a substack that I don't really send it out as much as I should, but not long, you know?
[51:38] Valerie Beck: Yeah.
[51:39] Michael Green: So it's just like something I got, I think, pretty Good at over 20 years.
[51:45] Valerie Beck: Yeah.
[51:45] Michael Green: And just as human beings, we're sort of hesitant to like put things down that we're good at. So I, I'm still, I'm still doing it, but between the book and the substack and I write a lot with like, with clients and stuff. So it's, I tend to, you know, work on one thing at a time. Yeah, it's still very much there.
[52:07] Valerie Beck: I've. I've been Diving into the artist's way. Have you heard of that?
[52:13] Michael Green: Yeah, I read it a long time ago. 20 years.
[52:16] Valerie Beck: And I love that it is about. It's actually about spirituality and how she. You know, she frames creativity to be a connection with the divine. And I think after all we've talked about today, like, that really makes sense to me, that that's kind of like an essential part of who we are. And when we. I think as artists, when we have the taste of it early in life, it. There's something there for us that will always be there for us. So, yeah, it's really cool that you've still been able to continue creating as you've evolved in your own practice.
[52:58] Michael Green: Yeah, it will continue. You know, it's like here, it's a very creative town. There's lots of music, lots of art, you know, and now it's like, oh, I think I want to learn how to play drums. So I think I'm going to take drum lessons, you know, and just like, continuing the. The sort of creative, you know, playfulness I like. I just want to get younger as I get older. That's my goal.
[53:20] Valerie Beck: Yeah, for sure. Same. All right, well, thank you so much, Michael. I definitely was like, I gotta bring him back. Because the conversations we've had on, like, philosophy and Ayurveda, it just has really resonated, and I'm eager to keep it going. So. Yeah.
[53:40] Michael Green: Awesome.
[53:40] Valerie Beck: Thanks.
[53:41] Michael Green: Great to. Great to see you. And thanks for having me back. Perfect timing, because someone's knocking on my door.
[53:46] Valerie Beck: Okay. All right, I'll see you next time.
[53:48] Michael Green: Thanks, Valerie.
