[00:00] Valerie: Rise. Renew. Reconnect. Welcome to from the Ashes, where every episode ignites hope and healing.
[00:08] Last month, I had a very unique experience. As an assistant tour guide, I helped take two heavy metal bands, the Lords of the Trident and the Seven Spires, plus their fan club all over Japan for two and a half weeks.
[00:23] Going into the experience, I didn't know anything about metal music. And suffice it to say that after two and a half weeks, I returned home a changed woman.
[00:33] So today I'm bringing on the drummer of Seven Spires, Dylan Gowan, to talk about the magic of heavy metal Japan and so much more. Enjoy this episode of from the Ashes.
[00:58] Valerie: All right, everyone, welcome back to from the Ashes. I am your host, Valerie Beck, and today I have a guest from Toronto. His name is Dylan Gowan and he is the new drummer for the band Seven Spires.
[01:13] And it's funny because I actually don't know too much about metal music, but Dylan is in Seven Spires, which is a really awesome heavy metal band. And the reason why I brought him on today is because we both just came back from two and half weeks touring in Japan together.
[01:31] Me as one of the assistant tour guides and Dylan as the drummer for Seven Spires. So I wanted to jump right into that by kind of digging into that common thread that we've had and then we'll go a little bit into that metal music and what it means or what metal music means to you.
[01:50] Let's start off with the question of, actually, no, why don't I give the audience a little bit of background? All good.
[02:00] Why are we in Japan together? What is this whole metal thing? Because people know me more as a holistic health coach and I talk a lot about wellness on the show.
[02:09] I talk a lot about art on the show as me being a hip hop artist, a dancer, and how art has helped heal and form my journey. And so, going to Japan at the beginning of December, I was called on to be a tour guide.
[02:25] That's a profession that I've had in the past. And it was for the Seven Spires and Lords of the Trident, two heavy metal bands from America bringing their fan club along.
[02:35] So it was you guys and your fan club, which I thought was just so amazing, very unique. Everyone that I told this about was. Was very intrigued by this and it turned out to be so much more than I thought it would be.
[02:50] I had so much fun on this trip. And it was also amazing to watch you guys play as we traveled through Japan.
[02:58] So we started off in the north of Japan, in Sendai. We made our way down back to Tokyo and then to Kansai and then all the way down to Fukuoka, all along with like 50 some odd people.
[03:11] Wild experience and just such a great way to get to know metal music and also the metal scene in Japan. That being said, Dylan, what was your favorite part of the Japan experience?
[03:26] Dylan Gowan: Man, that's really, really hard to answer because the whole experience itself was just amazing. It was like, amazing that we get to go and play every, practically every night and then also bring a bunch of our fans to Japan just to see this really unique experience of going to see all the different sites and all the different cities, as well as playing in a lot of these venues throughout the country.
[03:51] And it was really unique to also talk with a lot of metal fans from Japan and play with a lot of local bands. And what was really, really special was the show in Osaka.
[04:05] Ty from Lords of the Trident and I, we were really big fans of the band that opened the show, which was Bloodstained Child. And he and I have listened to them since high school.
[04:14] And we were kind of weirded out by it in the sense of like, shouldn't we open the show and they close? But it was this weird kind of. It was just weird kind of show because it's like, kind of surreal that a band that you listen to for a while and you get to share the stage with them and you're just kind of going, this isn't real.
[04:33] This is not real. That we're playing literally in their hometown. They're opening the show and like, you're just blown away by that. And you're with. And you're surrounded by your friends and people who have followed the band as well as making new friends from Osaka and everywhere from Japan.
[04:51] So, yeah, I think just the experience in general, it's really hard to pin. Pin down one highlight because the whole trip itself was a massive highlight.
[05:01] Valerie: Amazing. Yeah, I remember Ty telling me about that, how they're. He was like, oh, my God, I can't believe they're gonna open for us.
[05:10] So I actually witnessed a few moments because as a tour guide, I kind of get to just watch you all. It's. It's my responsibility, right, to make sure, like, you're, you're, you're fed, you're, you know, you're getting enough rest, like, everything's taken care of.
[05:22] But I also get to see like what goes on because I get to watch the shows and everything. So from the audience perspective and then just watching everyone in the audience too, I want to tell you an anecdote that I think is what really made this experience special for me.
[05:38] I don't remember if it was Osaka or one of the shows after, but you guys were on stage playing a song and I turn around and two of the guests in your fan club that you'd brought along that aren't related or anything like that, but were clearly like friends before they were.
[05:57] They just turned around and looked at each other and gave each other this huge and longest, most loving hug.
[06:05] And it was something about the music that. That was having them have this moment.
[06:13] And I just thought how fortunate I was to be able to witness that, but also like how, how special that is because a lot of us are. We don't have this group where we could.
[06:26] We travel internationally together. We're like tight knit and like. But you guys have this thing where, you know, not only are your fans also kind of like your friends, but they're also really tight with each other.
[06:37] Some of them travel around together outside of this tour too. And I just saw how. Yeah. How tight that relationship was.
[06:47] Yeah, yeah.
[06:49] Dylan Gowan: I mean it's, it's really, it's really amazing to kind of witness that because a lot of times within metal there's kind of. There's a bit of a instant friendship that kind of happens with a lot of fellow metal heads.
[07:02] Because metal is a very niche genre. Like not everyone really understands it. And so it feels like when somebody likes the same type of music that you do, you kind of understand them right away because a lot of metalheads are really.
[07:17] Are similar personality wise. And so once you kind of see like a band, like see a band that you like or see somebody that's like walking and you recognize the band shirt, you kind of like there's this like, like some sort of spider sense that you get going.
[07:34] Like.
[07:35] I know, I know that you listen to good music, that kind of thing.
[07:38] And, and a lot of people, they just really, I mean with, with Seven Spires music especially they. It's one of those bands where it's so authentic when it comes to the emotional component of the songs itself.
[07:52] Like, I mean Adrian, Jack and Peter, they're all such strong songwriters and they play with such. Not only such intensity but with such emotion too. And so with them it's like they're not putting on.
[08:06] I mean they're putting on a show. But it's also.
[08:09] These are also real emotions that they're getting out on stage every single night. And that's also heard with the audience as well. And they get that as too, because they can put their own experience within the lyrics and with the music themselves.
[08:23] They can put their own stamp on the story that's being told.
[08:27] So it's really interesting to see how they react to the music as well as us seeing their reaction. And so sometimes we see people in the audience, they cry during the set, or sometimes they hug, or sometimes they mosh like crazy.
[08:42] Or in fuoca, we had a conga line.
[08:46] So it was kind of cool to see all these different reactions. And we get to see that every night. It's just amazing.
[08:54] Valerie: Yeah, I think that was very unique and really incredible. It was my first time witnessing moshing. Although I have to say I probably got the tamest version of moshing that I've will ever get.
[09:08] But, you know, relating it back to my own experience. Right. Like, I think because I come from a hip hop world where a lot of the emotion that's being expressed comes from a very specific history, the social history and, you know, certain emotions that come with that that are more prevalent.
[09:27] Right. And like, you know, the first one that comes up for me when I think of hip hop is anger. And.
[09:34] Yeah, I mean, that would be the first one that comes up. Right. But it's expressed in a very particular way sometimes it is kind of in this, like, you know, it's an expression of a view of life that isn't always.
[09:47] It's like strength, but also there is this sadness to it as well.
[09:53] What do you think is the core of, like, metal music?
[09:58] Dylan Gowan: It's. It's tough to say because you can express all different emotions within metal. Like, it's not. I mean, anger is definitely one of them for sure, because of the screaming and because it's like it's not enough sometimes to say I'm angry by saying I'm angry.
[10:12] Sometimes you have to scream it. And that's. And then a lot of people relate to that because they wanted to scream when they're upset as well. So there's. There is a ton of anger.
[10:21] There's also a lot of sadness, but there's also a lot of uplifting moments within metal as well. So there's like, there's some metal bands, like one of the bands that opened the show, Japanese folk metal, they're a complete party band.
[10:33] So they're all about having a good time and drinking and like celebrating and doing all that stuff. And then you get some metal bands that are just angry, aggressive and the music backs up that intensity.
[10:46] But there's also. And that intensity is also. Also resonates with a lot of hip hop too. And that's why there's a lot of crossover between hip hop and metal. Where you get.
[10:55] Sometimes you get like the new metal movement, which incorporated a ton of hip hop stuff into it. And then you also get groups like some crossover thrash bands, they really adapted a lot of hip hop's attitude as well within their music.
[11:09] And sometimes you even just get bands that collaborate. Like we had Run DMC and Anthrax with Bring the Noise and how that was like the first step into really kind of hip hop and metal, trying to like take the two styles and kind of blend them together.
[11:26] And then eventually over time, it's like you'll get groups like Body Count, which was fronted by Ice T. And he brought his intensity within rap music, but also he loves metal music as well.
[11:38] So he just combined both of them and he created something that's unique to him and that inspires a whole other list of a ton of bands that combine those two elements together.
[11:51] Valerie: Yeah, absolutely. And I think just like, you know, when I say like there's one emotion that comes up, it's like there's definitely a whole range in each category, right? In each genre of music.
[12:00] But it just like looking at the origins of things. And I want to dig into that a little bit more after. But kind of just going along with the Japan discussion, I want to also ask you what are some experiences that really surprised you or stuck with you about the tour in Japan?
[12:16] Like the people, the places and the culture.
[12:18] Dylan Gowan: I mean, I've never seen a nine band festival be so organized in my life than Nagoya. It was because back, back home it's like a logistical nightmare to organize nine bands that could have four to six members, sometimes even seven.
[12:38] So it's insane how everybody like there was a corner in each of the backstage where everyone would place all their gear and it was so well organized that the moment they would be done, they would take the gear, put it away outside, like whether it's like in their cars or back home or what have you, but it was gone.
[12:56] And it was just like this structure that everybody kind of understood the assignment. Like the moment that you were done, the gear goes out of the venue and then the next band puts their gear on stage.
[13:08] And then when they're done, they bring it out. And it's normally not like that because, like, sometimes if you're in a festival, they'll just leave their gear backstage and we're kind of like, walking over everybody's gear to kind of put ours on stage.
[13:22] And that doesn't. And that never happened in Japan. Everyone was so. It was so well structured that it was almost uncomfortable because we're not used to that.
[13:36] Valerie: Yeah.
[13:36] Dylan Gowan: And. And what also really shocked me was the reaction of the audience, because what I noticed is that a lot of audience. The audience in Japan can be very reserved at times.
[13:48] And normally when we're playing in North America or some parts of Europe, because some parts in Europe, they're also very reserved as well. But in Canada and the United States, they'll go.
[14:03] They'll go all out.
[14:04] And sometimes when we see people that are in the audience that are reserved, sometimes you feel like, are we blowing it? Are we. Are we, like. Like, we're not playing bad, are we?
[14:15] No, no, no, I don't think so. I remember I turned to Jack, one of the shows where the audience was just kind of sitting there like this, like, not arms crossed, but kind of, like.
[14:24] Just kind of watching, like.
[14:27] Like as if.
[14:29] As if we were kind of not playing as well, but we thought we were doing okay. But then after the show, you get surrounded and you're like, that was so amazing.
[14:40] We can't wait for you to come back. And you're like. In the back of your head, you're like, oh. Oh, sweet. Okay, Stokoi. So it's like.
[14:51] So it's just that sometimes they're really engaged with the music itself rather than expressing it, like throwing the horns or head banging or moshing or doing it, all that stuff.
[15:02] So a lot of the times it's just very much like they're really listening to everybody on stage, and then they'll. They'll clap and then.
[15:12] And yeah, it's just like. It's just their way of going to a concert and expressing their love for the music.
[15:21] Valerie: Yeah, absolutely. And I. I actually haven't been to many concerts in Japan, so that was my first time or one of my first times, really. Just, like, being in the audience and watching them.
[15:33] Although I did see. I did see some headbanging, for sure. You know, I think the people who really get into it or, like, I think maybe some of the people who relate a lot with the metal culture, they'll.
[15:44] They'll do the stuff, right? They'll do the moshing. They'll do all of that.
[15:48] Yeah. Like, I know that when I'm in a. In The States and I'm in a dead crowd. It's so sad for me.
[15:55] So, you know, like, I actually get really.
[15:58] Because as a dancer, I also want to like, kind of let loose in all of that. And when nobody else wants to do it, I feel kind of like, oh, well, I guess I won't do it either.
[16:06] Dylan Gowan: Gotcha.
[16:07] Valerie: You know, But I. I felt like a good mix of. Of that in the audience. Watching you guys is like, I can headbang if I want, but also I could just chill if I want to, you know, and no one's making it.
[16:18] Doesn't feel like I'm being pressured either way is really cool.
[16:21] Dylan Gowan: Absolutely. Yeah.
[16:22] Valerie: Yeah. You know, with that being said, knowing that like in Japanese culture and with all that they engage with metal music a certain way, and then you said that Europe, the European crowds can tend to be a little bit reserved too.
[16:34] Like, how do you. Since you've traveled the world playing your music, you know, how do you see different cultures receive your music differently? And why do you think that is?
[16:45] Dylan Gowan: I think. I think it just has to do with just. My guess is just. It could just be standard concert etiquette. Like, I think sometimes a lot of people who.
[16:56] And I think it has to do also with the environment as well. Like, I think that sometimes to be respectful to the artist, sometimes it's not to be overly expressive because that could be distracting for the person who really wants to like, sit and enjoy.
[17:10] Enjoy the music for. For what it is, rather than just kind of the extra stuff that's going on. Like in Scandinavia, there is some parts where, like Norway. In some parts of Norway, they were very reserved, but in Sweden they went crazy.
[17:25] And then. And I know in Toronto, Toronto goes ham at every single show that they go to, except for classical music, where everyone kind of understands the assignment of, like, everyone sits down and they listen to the music and they don't get up or clap until the very end of the show.
[17:44] So I think it just really has to do with the exception of the mini rant. I think it's just like. I think really it's just standard concert etiquette that varies from different countries.
[17:57] And then when you understand that, you don't have to overthink about you. You're playing on stage, you just go out and you just play.
[18:06] Valerie: Yeah, for sure.
[18:08] You know, I think that makes sense too, because, like, even though I would go to like a hip hop concert or like a house event or like jazz, like, each of those settings have different behavioral expectations.
[18:18] We just don't Think about it. Because we take it for granted, right?
[18:22] Dylan Gowan: Yeah, no, absolutely.
[18:24] Valerie: Okay. I would like to ask you then, have you ever, like, did you start off as a fan of metal music before you got into playing it, or were you kind of like, I want to be a metal musician?
[18:38] Dylan Gowan: Well, I mean, it started. It started out by just being a fan of rock music. Like, and that was passed. And that love of rock music was passed down from, you know, my family who was really involved, like, loved, like, 70s progressive rock, like yes in Genesis and King Crimson.
[18:55] And they also loved, you know, some of the art rock stuff, like David Bowie and some of the kind of shock rock stuff, like Alice Cooper. So there's always a love of rock music.
[19:08] But then there was a program that in Canada called Much Loud. So, like, much Music was kind of like the equivalent of, like, mtv.
[19:17] And I remember watching much music, and around midnight, like, every, like, Friday and Saturday, they would play, like, punk and they would play metal music. And I remember I was just kind of flicking the channels and I just kind of sat down and watched.
[19:34] Watched, like, one video, and I loved it. And I'm like, oh, what's the next band that's playing? And I just remember just getting, like, bombarded with so many great bands, like System of A Down, Deftones.
[19:49] There would be some Slayer on it. There would be Metallica, Motorhead, Iron Maiden. So you just get, like, a list of all of these, like, really amazing bands. And I would just be so excited every single time that that show would come on.
[20:06] I would run down to the basement with a pen of paper and I'd just write down all the bands that were playing. And then eventually they started playing heavier, even heavier stuff than that.
[20:16] Like, you would get some Obituary sometimes. You would get Death, you would get Deicide. A lot of the more extreme bands that kind of followed after, like, the thrash, like, the thrash movement.
[20:29] And. And then I really started to explore more of the extreme metal side when I was in high school. And a friend of mine, he handed me a copy of Opeth And I loved how it was progressive rock, but, like a metal version of it, and really got involved into the progressive metal scene, where it was like the next evolution of, like, all the bands like yes and Genesis, but bringing in more of a metal component to it, but still keeping it so experimental.
[21:01] Started really listening to bands like OPETH and Cynic Catatonia, between the Buried and Me, Sixth Protest, the Hero.
[21:13] Who else? Periphery and Animals as Leaders. So it's like a whole list of these bands that were Metal, but they were also very experimental as well.
[21:24] So that's kind of the rabbit hole I went down in terms of being involved in metal music. And I haven't looked back ever since.
[21:33] Valerie: Amazing. So it's funny because as you're rattling these names off, it's so funny how the. If you take them out of context, they sound pretty morbid.
[21:46] And I kind of want to ask you about that. So having been a newbie to metal doing this tour, I got to kind of see what I liked and what I resonated with.
[21:57] And what I actually resonated with was the more extreme aggressive stuff. Like for example in Nagoya Temple and the band that went before it where it was like a lot of screaming and just a lot of that really heavy drumming and really heavy bass.
[22:16] I really like that stuff.
[22:19] And I think the reason why is because it is very raw, it's not decorative and it really shows that, you know, a lot of in regular society we're really not allowed to express these extreme emotions.
[22:37] Like, or like anger is like kind of looked frowned upon, right? To, to like feel angst and do all that is kind of frowned upon. But we're doing it in this very artistic and fun way when we engage with metal or other art forms that allow us to do it.
[22:51] And I really resonate with that. And so kind of looking at that and then looking at kind of the themes that I see here with the band name titles and even like this, the album name titles and all of that, a lot of it is like kill the God or this God is Dead, like be aside and okay, so where do you think that comes from?
[23:11] And like why is that so prevalent in a lot of metal music?
[23:16] Dylan Gowan: I think because there's a lot of things to be angry about and. And I think that it can be expressed. Hmm.
[23:24] I'm just trying to think of.
[23:27] It's because there are so many different topics that you could be completely angry about. And so like if you grew up very religious and you hate that, it's like that kind of gives you.
[23:43] I mean metal is a perfect outlet for that. How it's very anti authoritative and stuff and how it hates it hates being like. Like basically you have to meet society's expectations and a lot of metal music kind of goes against that.
[24:00] They're going like, they're very keen on just like living your life the way that you want to live it authentically as you can.
[24:08] And there's just a lot of things that you could just be.
[24:11] I mean you can be like napalm death. A lot of their lyrics have to do with society and how an over overly capitalist society can be. Is freaking terrible for.
[24:23] For mankind. So you. So that's what a lot of their songs are based around. Gojira based. A lot of their songs are about the environment and how we are complete idiots and we're destroying it.
[24:34] Same with Cattle Decapitation. Cattle Decapitation also talks about there's like further back they went hard into like the veganism, vegetarianism.
[24:44] So they were very much like had a ton of lyrics that were based on animal. Animal rights. So. But there's also some like comedy metal bands that get angry because they stubbed their toe on the way out getting a coffee.
[24:57] So it's like there's endless stuff to be angry about. And that's why metal music, there's always been like. There's never been an end to being. Being upset about something.
[25:07] Valerie: Yeah. What about for you personally? Have you ever felt like that was an outlet for you? Or has metal ever helped you channel any kind of personal struggle?
[25:17] Dylan Gowan: Yeah, I mean. I mean as a. As a kid I was bullied a lot. So it kind of felt like listening to bands like Slipknot and Korn and all these other bands, that kind of was an outlet for aggression and.
[25:31] But more in a healthier sense.
[25:34] So being in an environment where you could be with people that have a similar experience and you can all kind of let this aggression out together in a healthy environment, it made the music more authentic and it also made like you could also just make new friends at shows because of your own shared experience.
[25:56] Like somebody kind of gets you.
[25:58] Valerie: Yeah.
[25:58] Dylan Gowan: And yeah, that's why. That's why metal is a very unique genre to get into because not only it's the music, but it's also the people as well.
[26:08] Valerie: Yeah.
[26:10] So I'm gonna ask a little bit of a deep question and I don't know. I don't know if there's an answer to this song because this is something that I ponder on a lot is like as an artist, the way that I have.
[26:21] I've related with my art has evolved over time. Like, I think when I first started doing hip hop dance, it was more. I mean, I thought the movement was really cool and very challenging.
[26:32] And you know, all of that, that was part of it. But I think part of it was because I was. I grew up very shy. I didn't like to talk.
[26:40] But dance allowed me to be loud in a different way. And it allowed me to express some of the parts that I Was afraid to express otherwise.
[26:52] And that included a lot of, like, the angst that I had.
[26:56] But as I. As I matured in that part, like, I realized that I had changed.
[27:02] And the way that I was doing my art also changed. I didn't.
[27:09] I no longer wanted to, like, just fuel raw emotion that, like, I couldn't control because, like, I realized that wasn't really healthy for me. And I had to also just kind of step back and.
[27:22] And deal with that before, like, I went through and explored my art again.
[27:28] Have you ever experienced anything like that where, like, your relationship with. With metal or, like, your drumming has changed too?
[27:35] Dylan Gowan: Oh, absolutely. Like, I think, because it's funny because every subgenre of metal has their own kind of different subculture itself.
[27:45] And being within progressive metal, where everybody is trying to be the most experimental, but also kind of tell a story and how they're trying to genre bend a little bit by taking influences from a ton of other genres and putting it in metal context, that spoke to me more as I.
[28:07] As I, like, kind of explored all these different genres. That one really speak to me. And it still speaks to me more than any other genre. Where when I was a kid, like, death metal and thrash and all that stuff, where it was just such raw anger emotion.
[28:25] It feels like there's ways to express that too, by not just saying, like, just not by not just, like, being overly aggressive. You can express it also with, like, a hint of sadness to it, with also some growth and happiness in a weird.
[28:40] In a weird way, even though it's screaming. But there's also singing that's involved as well. So you get these kind of different ways to express all the emotions rather than just kind of throw it in all just in one emotion.
[28:53] There's many different ones that you can express. And it feels like that's changed my drumming, where I'm not holding the sticks as tightly as I used to. It's like I can be a bit more relaxed because there's moments where there's a lot of, like, uplifting stuff, like Succumb, which we play in the set, which is like this really kind of uplifting song.
[29:17] And there's also Almost Town, which has a bit of a somber, ish tone to it, even though the song's, like, uplifting. But then there's also this God is Dead, which goes, like, completely up and down the rails.
[29:30] And there's a lot of intense moments, but there's also some call and response and how there's just ways of just expressing emotions as you get older and you kind of understand just being.
[29:44] Just being a better musician rather than just kind of know this one thing and then just doing that only.
[29:52] Valerie: Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think that the more that I have progressed in my dance, I don't want because like the tendency in hip hop where like in street style dances, you're like, you're this type of dancer.
[30:05] You're this type of dancer and you're this type of dancer. People are very afraid to kind of go outside of their box some of the time and like actually just be the artist and kind of use especially for advanced people who have a lot of those skill sets.
[30:19] It's like, how do I then make it my own so that I am unique entity and all of that. That really resonates. Yeah, I know you haven't been in Seven Spires for, for that long, but kind of knowing what you know, I notice on their, on their website they have lore as part of their kind of how they make their music.
[30:42] They have like a story behind it that's separate from actually just like, it's like a fantasy story. And I've heard with other people describing metal during the time we were in Japan being like, oh, there's a lot of.
[30:55] This band has a lot of fantasy. What does that mean?
[30:59] Dylan Gowan: So a lot of times like sometimes a lot of bands that will have a, like a continuing, a continuing story and that's really heavily influenced by progressive music, which has one album that has a whole entire, entire story based around whichever kind of storyline that they choose to have.
[31:18] Like sometimes you could have one record that's just about like one. That's just a complete fantasy record where they're talking about like, oh, here's like, it's like kind of like a Lord of the Rings type of thing where it's like, oh, he goes, grabs the ring, gets all these friends along the way and then he throws the ring into Mount Doom and then walks away from it.
[31:40] So sometimes like bands will have a continuing storyline or sometimes bands will just do one. Well like a one off story per record.
[31:49] So when they say a lot of fantasy, that's kind of the environment that they create with each record. Kind of all ties together within the same linear story.
[32:02] Valerie: Interesting. Yeah, there was a very like theatrical component to it. I noticed with a lot of the bands.
[32:09] I think there was also something you said about metal being kind of like classical music.
[32:16] Yeah. Can you explain that a little bit more too?
[32:19] Dylan Gowan: Yeah, absolutely. So I think the main distinction between rock and metal music is that rock is a very blues based style of music where the difference with metal music is that it's very classical based.
[32:32] So it draws a lot of inspiration from Mozart and Bach and Beethoven and all the big classical composers and it draws heavy influences from their playing. And metal music just kind of is taking what those composers have done and just adding electric guitars to it.
[32:52] So if you were to take metal songs and just completely strip it of all the drums and the bass and the guitars and the screaming and if you put that to like violins and piano, it's classical music.
[33:05] Valerie: Yeah. Are you familiar with the video game series Final Fantasy?
[33:12] Dylan Gowan: Oh, of course.
[33:13] Valerie: Okay. Have you played any of them?
[33:16] Dylan Gowan: I played 7 a long, long time ago and 10 but I haven't played. So I've played. Actually played 7, 8 and 10 and then Dissidia which was like the fighting game.
[33:32] Valerie: Because as soon as you're talking about that because I'm playing seven Rebirth right now and the battle theme is. I think it's metal.
[33:43] Yeah.
[33:44] But it is also classical. I think a lot of that. Yeah, they incorporate a lot of that and it's like. Yeah, that is actually really true. That was the first thing that popped into my head.
[33:55] Yeah. I feel like I've been around metal music so much I just like never really paid attention to it. But like once I thought about it like yeah, this is.
[34:05] It's so prevalent everywhere.
[34:08] There's something that you said. So while we were in Japan on one of the last days of our trip, we went down to Fukuoka and we went to this vegan restaurant in the kind of in the boonies of Fukuoka.
[34:23] And I remember you saying something about wanting to be a health, like wanting to do what you do but like in a more healthy way. Do you remember saying that?
[34:35] Dylan Gowan: Oh, so I think that. I think that's because of the audition that I did for Spires.
[34:40] Valerie: Okay.
[34:40] Dylan Gowan: Yeah, yeah. Because a lot of the times when it comes to doing like music itself is a very.
[34:48] Being involved in whatever genre that you're. That you're in. And if you're doing this as a. As a living, a lot of the jobs are very.
[34:57] They're hard to come by because it's either a rotating door of musicians that only have like that only last for a couple of. A couple of shows to maybe a month, maybe if you're lucky a year or it could just be a weekend.
[35:13] So whenever you're like. And I think this resonates with a lot of musicians as well is that whenever you're auditioning for a band you Put a lot of yourself into that audition, especially if you think that you have a, like.
[35:32] Especially if you have like a massive task ahead of you when you're learning a band's discography. So for me, it was like doing the Spires audition. It was going through, literally it was eight hours of just learning that this one particular part of the song.
[35:49] Because for my audition piece, I had to do this God is Dead, which is the song that we played on the last night as well as in Osaka. And when I was listening to that song, I'm like, I love how it transitions from different moods and tones and how the lyrics reflect each part so well and doesn't feel like it's a copy and paste thing.
[36:12] So as I'm listening to it, I'm like, okay, this part I know I can do. This part I know I can do. And then when it came to the super fast double kick part, I can, like in the back of my head is like, I can play fast, but I can't play that fast.
[36:27] And so I had to learn a totally new skill to try and at least get to that, get to that level.
[36:35] So it was really trying to learn how to get to that particular speed, which was so challenging in that you're just saying like practicing it over and over and over and over again.
[36:49] And like the, a lot of the time there's like that voice in the back of your mind saying like, you're never going to get it. You're not going to get it.
[36:58] You can't get this. And you just have to like, ignore that and just continue to do that over, like, and just continue the, the, the progress.
[37:08] And so doing it more in a healthier way would not be what I did for the audition for Spire.
[37:16] Valerie: Okay.
[37:18] Dylan Gowan: So I think sometimes you have to be a little bit kinder to yourself whenever you're doing auditions.
[37:24] I didn't do that for, for, for me. But I think if I was to do that audition again, I'd be like, dude, you're learning something that is, that wasn't in your wheelhouse before.
[37:35] And you're learning something in three weeks that really realistically should take you a couple months to learn.
[37:43] And I was just lucky enough to get it to that level in that amount of time.
[37:53] Valerie: I think that's a really valuable little bit for anyone who's an artist out there. Because I, I didn't go into commercial dancing because I couldn't handle the audition process.
[38:10] It was really hard for me.
[38:12] It would be very emotionally draining.
[38:15] Dylan Gowan: Right.
[38:16] Valerie: Because you have to Go into one audition after the other. You're never against so many other people.
[38:22] And every time you get rejected, it is hard to tell yourself, I'm just like, I'm just not good enough. You know, Whereas sometimes it's not even about how skilled you are, but there's, there's a persistence that, you know and kind of like a not putting your own value on the outcome of whatever it is like and, but putting in the work, obviously, right?
[38:48] Oh, totally, yeah, yeah. And I think, yeah, we get really discouraged sometimes.
[38:55] Dylan Gowan: Yeah. I mean, because a lot of the times like we put like dancers or musicians or actors or anything like that. A lot of the times people put a lot of their self worth into their art itself.
[39:06] And that is really tough thing to separate because you put a lot of your identity and your personality as well as how you express yourself through art. And it's really tough to distinguish, to separate the two.
[39:28] Like your worth is more than your art. And that is something that every artist kind of struggles with. And even though they know it's, they know in the back of their head that they're two totally separate things.
[39:47] It's really hard for it to be, to, for it to kind of be two permanent things and then they're just constantly going back and forth.
[39:57] Yeah. So it's, it's, it's, it's tough. But I think sometimes you just have to be a little bit kinder to yourself.
[40:05] And even though that can be very, very hard at times, how would you.
[40:10] Valerie: Say you will approach it in the future? Like, you know, is there anything that you would do differently or exercises you do? I don't know.
[40:19] Dylan Gowan: I'm not, I'm not entirely sure. Like, I think I would have to be thrown into that to that in order to kind of, to figure, to figure that out. But I think I would be.
[40:32] I mean, I would like to be a lot more kinder to myself if I was ever in that position again. Because it's a lot to do in such a short amount of time.
[40:44] But I think there's other ways of just kind of practicing and progressing rather than just bludgeoning yourself with this continuous thing over and over and over again. If that makes any sense.
[40:56] Valerie: Yeah, I think maybe what you're getting it at, which I think is very difficult. It is like being very mindful of the mindset. Yeah, right.
[41:08] Dylan Gowan: That's exactly it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[41:10] Valerie: Which is something that I work with people a lot, but it is like. I don't think we all realize that sometimes it is just the way of that shifting perspective. But the hard lessons sometimes have to also be learned before we realize that we need to do that.
[41:24] Right. So, yeah. So I'll be curious later on what you think if you ever come up against that question again, how do you maintain.
[41:34] So, you know, we have the mental health aspect here, but like, when you're on tour, there's also the physical aspect that you have to maintain. Right. And I feel like, you know, I asked, I think I was.
[41:45] I think that's Brian from Lords. Was the Japan tour harder or easier than the other tours that he's done? And he said it's probably on par because there was so much going on.
[41:58] Right. Because while you guys were playing the shows, even though everything was organized and all of that, there was also the tourism schedule that everyone was trying to follow too, along with the, the music performances.
[42:11] So how did you find that experience? And like, also how. How do you maintain your condition while.
[42:16] Dylan Gowan: You'Re traveling like that, Getting plenty of sleep, that's like the most important thing, especially because you're. If you're playing like practically every single night, you have to be really conscious of your time.
[42:31] That's a huge. That's a huge, huge factor because you have only a certain amount of hours to sound check. If you get one where normally it's like a couple of.
[42:41] Normally it's like 15 minutes and then you're on stage for an hour and then you also have to get ready. Then you also have to take all the gear out and then make your way back to the hotel or wherever you're staying.
[42:52] Majority of the time, it's usually either in a van or a tour bus or.
[43:01] Or sometimes if you're lucky, you get a hotel. So how you basically use your time is the most important thing to basically being able to continuously play on, on a consistent basis.
[43:19] So like, that means, like, even on your day off, it's like, don't go out, don't go out drinking, like all, all hours of the night. Make sure that you get plenty of sleep, make sure that you are eating.
[43:34] Because sometimes it's very easy to forget when you're got a lot of things that are going on, you know, so.
[43:41] And then kind of keeping that routine is just good because.
[43:46] Because it's just good for your health in general. That's just kind of flat out what it. Like flat out what it, what it is.
[43:53] But on this tour, it was, I would say in terms of the physical side of it, it was. I would agree with Brian. It was pretty. It's pretty on par with.
[44:03] With other. With other tours.
[44:05] But. But sometimes that threshold can be. Can be different for everybody. Sometimes people have a higher threshold where they can, you know, they're not gonna. It's not gonna be as physically draining or they're, or they're able to get enough sleep with five hours.
[44:21] Sometimes people need a full eight hours. So it really depends on the. On the person.
[44:26] And also a big important factor is if you notice somebody is sick, you know.
[44:33] Valerie: Yeah.
[44:34] Dylan Gowan: Be. Be sure to, you know, like not stay away but like mask up and make sure that you're like, you have everything on hand. If you were to get sick then, you know, be conscious of the people around you so that you're not getting them sick because you don't want to jeopardize the show at all or anything like that.
[44:54] Yeah. So like if I. Because I remember like I had a bit of a cough in Kiroshima and it's like masking up and then when we did the next show it's like mask up again and then take the mask off when you do the show and then put it back on.
[45:10] So it's like it's a whole thing. That's for sure.
[45:13] Valerie: Yeah, I noticed this as well. And there was 50 something people. Inevitably it was going to happen. Yeah, yeah, it was going to happen. But I think people were pretty good with doing the mask and like making sure to keep distance and all of that.
[45:26] And I, you know, in terms of the outcome of that, I'm really glad that none of the band members had too much of an issue. We had a little bit, but yeah.
[45:36] Dylan Gowan: Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.
[45:38] Valerie: Yeah.
[45:39] Okay, awesome. So we're gonna close up this interview.
[45:44] Let us know what you've got going on, what the Seven Spires has got going on for 2025 and you know where we can find your music such.
[45:52] Dylan Gowan: Yeah. So there's a lot that's going on with the Seven Spires this year. I can't say too much about it, but we are playing Wacken Open Air later on in the summer which is the biggest heavy metal festival in the world and we're super, super excited to go and play there.
[46:08] We also have legions of metal festival in Chicago in May and then we play another show in Germany a couple days after that and there's a lot more shows to be announced but can't say anything at the moment.
[46:21] But it's going to be another busy year, that's for sure. And we're all really excited and looking forward to what comes up this year.
[46:28] Valerie: Amazing. And what about any things that you're personally looking forward to in this year?
[46:33] Dylan Gowan: Anything looking forward to this year? There's a lot and I can't really say too much about it because it's so like I want to say all the things, but there's a couple of session.
[46:45] Session gigs I'm personally really excited about to announce. There's a lot of things with Seven Spires I, I would love to share with you, but I just can't at the moment because it's like top secret and.
[46:57] But we'll, we'll have some announcements really soon. But yeah, it's looking like it's going to be another busy year and just really excited to, to get started.
[47:05] Valerie: Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Dylan, for being on here today. I want to shout out to everyone who made the Japan tour possible. I just say hi to everyone too.
[47:18] Yeah. Thank you, Sim Spiers. Thank you, Lords of the Trident. Ty, for putting that tour together. Paxet, which was the tour company that I was helping out for the trip, I have learned so much from you guys.
[47:32] It was really a heartwarming experience. I learn everything every time that I travel and so I, I'm really grateful that I made actual friends on this trip that I was able to connect with all of you and really get to know a world that I knew very little about before.
[47:50] So thank you, Dylan.
[47:51] Dylan Gowan: Yeah, no worries.
[47:53] Valerie: Yeah, it was great to talk to you today.
[47:55] Dylan Gowan: Same to you.
[47:56] Valerie: All right, awesome. Catch you later.
