[00:00] Valerie: Rise, Renew, Reconnect. Welcome to from the Ashes, a podcast where every story ignites hope and healing.
[00:19] Valerie: Welcome back to from the Ashes. Today, I'm very excited to bring a special guest on, and I'm going to start with a story about how I found him. I went to Taiwan recently with my husband and our friends and family, and we decided one day to go to Mao Kong, which is a mountain kind of on the edge of Taipei, where they specialize in growing tea. And it's known for the gondola that goes up to the mountains in Mao Kong with really picturesque hills of tea bushes and everything. So we decided to take a day to explore, and we spent a whole day there and had a blast. It was probably our favorite part of Taipei. And during the day, it was pouring rain, so we had to go from shop to shop and stop into each shop. And so in each shop, we had a different experience. Everything from trying tea ice cream to trying the different types of teas, to having lunch. And then finally, when we were coming down the hill, I noticed a shop at the side of the road. And at that point, we had come and tried tea, but we hadn't bought any to bring back with us. And it's like, why don't we go into the shop to see if we can get some tea to bring back? And there was Rafa. So Rafa is our guest today. He is a tea master from Taiwan of multiple generations, and when he welcomed us into our shop, into his shop, we were so impressed by the high quality of his teas. And not only that, but the welcoming atmosphere that Rafa created for us in trying the teas and telling us about all the different types and why it's special. And I really resonated with so much that he said about tea and the philosophy of tea. So welcome, Rafa, to the show.
[02:14] Rafa: Thanks for having me. First of all, and my name is Rafa. My Mandarin name is Hong Yi. I am a tea master from Taiwan, and my family has been running tea business over seven generations in. I'm very excited to share what I know with all the audience.
[02:32] Valerie: Yeah. All right, So I have many things that I want to discuss today. And for those of us who are less familiar with tea. Right. And the culture of tea in Taipei, let's start with that and just give everyone an overview of why Taiwanese tea is special.
[02:50] Rafa: So basically, my family started tea business since the late Qing dynasty period. And the reason why Taiwan tea is special, because Taiwan Basically is an island surrounded by the ocean. And to grow good tea, we need humidity. So Taiwan surrounded by the ocean, which means this humid all year round. On top of that, Taiwan is mountainous. It has a tremendous amount of high mountains in particular, and most countries high mountains tend to be drier. But Taiwan, because it's surrounded by the ocean, so even in the high mountain, it's still humid enough for the tea bushes to grow. Well, so unlike most countries which are, which might have, which might snow in a very high altitude, in Taiwan, most of the mountains, there's no snow. That provides a very good foundation for the tea bushes to grow. The most important thing is, like most of the Taiwanese people originally came from China, where China basically is the root, the origin of the tea. So we have good tea master, good environment and good species. And also the humility that makes Taiwan has good tea. One of the best tea in the world.
[03:58] Valerie: Amazing. Yeah. So from my understanding, the tea that is probably the most famous from Taiwan is oolong, right?
[04:08] Rafa: Yeah, exactly.
[04:09] Valerie: Okay, so why is oolong so special? And you know, how is it made? And how does it differentiate itself from, let's say a black tea or a green tea?
[04:22] Rafa: So basically, technically speaking refers to it's a partially fermented tea. So the concept of oolong is actually quite confusing and broad. First of all, green tea is a non fermented tea. And black tea, on the other hand, is fully fermented. So oolong is what we call partially fermented, is anything in between. So oolong could be anything from 1% of fermentation to 99% of fermentation. And this is called partial. So some of the oolong tea does taste like green tea, some of them taste like black tea, some of them are in between. All have their own unique smells and tastes. That's the reason why oolong is always confusing and so interesting, because it comes with all different styles and tastes.
[05:07] Valerie: Yeah. And a lot of people, you know, I think here in the States, we were very used to having, let's just say black tea. Right. That's the most common. And then we have various, like herbal teas, but that's not coming from the same plant. So when you say tea, what, what is the plant and why, why is it so good for making this beverage tea?
[05:30] Rafa: The origin of originally people started drinking in China. That's a history. Because actually since the civilization of the Chinese dynasties, people have been, people started to drink tea. Since the human, since there's a human civilization. So the history of tea is very, very long and people started drinking it as a medicine. So people, people not just like, people didn't really like, just appreciate the taste of it. People thought that tea can heal your body, it's very good, it's a very healthy drink. And after that, because people started to process the tea a little bit, they dry it and the styles come afterwards and the flavor and the aroma and the taste will also improve, also improve during the history. So back to your question. It's like what differentiate a tea bush from other tea? So first of all, the so called tea that we have is actually I'm not so sure in English how to pronounce it correctly, but in Mandarin, it's basically a type of tea plant that is actually they have two type of tea plants. Most of people don't know. This one is a tree type. So some of the tea the HT like a Pu-erh. You could grow like three to four floor heights. It's like a very big tree. So that's why we call tea trees.
[07:02] Valerie: Oh, interesting.
[07:03] Rafa: So some of the tea tree just like a tree, tall as a tree, and most of the tea trees of oolong are tea bushes.
[07:11] Valerie: Okay.
[07:11] Rafa: They're just like a shrub. It's like about the size of our waste.
[07:15] Valerie: Okay.
[07:15] Rafa: So there's a big difference between the height of the tea bushes. So basically there are two type of tea tree. And for Indian black tea, some of them are naturally bigger, but not as, not as tall as a tree. So the difference between these two species is one type of if it's a tree type, basically naturally contains a lot of caffeine and has a lot of astringent and tannic acid. So those tea are more ideal for making them into aged tea or those tea are quite ideal for making them into beverage because the tea bush themselves have a very strong flavor. And for oolong tea, it contains less caffeine and less tannic acid. Oolong tea in general tastes smoother.
[07:57] Valerie: Okay.
[07:57] Rafa: The tea bushes taste smoother than the tree type.
[08:01] Valerie: All right. Yeah. And that makes a lot of sense and is. Sorry, just one question. Is the oolong tea bush the same as the one they use in Japan for their green tea?
[08:12] Rafa: Same family, but different species. Just like flowers like tulips. Tulips come with different colors, right? It's the same category, but it has different sizes and different colors, different styles of different smells as well. So tea is like that. It all looks like the same to a regular person, but actually just like the oolong in Taiwan has more than 200 types. They all look the same to everybody, but actually they're different.
[08:35] Valerie: That's really cool. I don't think a lot of people know that. I think people all think it's just one plant.
[08:42] Rafa: Yeah, People think trees. Tree. And then you just grow it and it comes green, teal, black, directly.
[08:47] Valerie: Okay, so I want to dig a little bit into the medicinal part of tea, because you mentioned it. And as you know, I'm an Ayurvedic practitioner and I've learned a lot about herbal medicine throughout the years. So I would love to hear about what the, the traditional medicinal uses are for tea.
[09:04] Rafa: Can you specify? Specify? Yeah.
[09:06] Valerie: So you said that people started to drink tea as medicine, right?
[09:10] Rafa: Yeah.
[09:10] Valerie: So what were the. I guess what. How does it benefit the body?
[09:14] Rafa: Okay. People believe that in, in a Chinese medicine book, the doctor believed that tea has the heating power for inflammation. So when your body has inflammation, people will drink tea to like, to. To heal you better. Because Chinese medicine's philosophy basically is to, to like counterbalance. Well, what we are having right now. It's not like a quick solution, but it's like a slower and less intrusive method that will just chill body in general. So people started to drink tea because they thought it's healthy. And by modern technology, there are tons of evidence proving that tea is actually healthy. And it doesn't have much side effect, almost no side effects. And tea also has vitamin. Just a little bit. And it has some chemical substance which will stop us from aging. Also it can facilitate our metabolism. You also make our blood circulation go faster.
[10:18] Valerie: Yeah. So it's really good for. So you said inflammation and also circulation, whatnot. Is there anything that the fermentation process does to the tea? Like why, why do people ferment tea?
[10:33] Rafa: Basically this question if you go deeper is like, why do people process tea? Right. Why do people started to process tea? Basically you would. Mainly we got to talk about the origin of the tea. So tea originally came from China and the, the Harvey's provinces are around, mostly around Fujian province, which is a southern part of China. Geographically, it's like if you look at China versus Europe, it's like Spain. It's like Spain or France. So Fujian province is in the southern part of China and but the capital was in Beijing or there were other bigger cities, major cities in China. It took people a long, very long time for them to ship the tea from the southern part to the northern part or to different cities. So if you, if we, if people didn't Process tea tea will lose all the flavor when they arrived. That's when people started to process tea to prolong the expiry day. But people didn't expect that by processing the tea, the flavor will alter so dramatically.
[11:41] Valerie: Yeah.
[11:41] Rafa: So people originally, initially they process it for, for shipping, for keeping it longer so the flavor wouldn't be gone completely gone when it, when the tea arrives. So also they have something to do with European tea because westerner drink most of the most black tea. Black tea basically could be preserved for a longer time. Right. So when, when European came to Asia by boats, it also took them a lot of time to ship the tea back to Europe or to America before probably several months. And then when everything the roots is more mature, probably several weeks, but still take a long time for them to get everything done. So when the tea arrived, when they ship it back to, to Europe, especially the journey you got across the ocean, you have salt in the air, so also affect the smell and the taste of the tea. So black tea in general, you could preserve it longer without changing much of the flavor. That's one of the reason why people drink. The businessman sold mostly black tea to Europe. Imagine you want to sell a green tea, but it has no flavor at all. People wouldn't buy it. So black tea, the reason why European drink a lot of it is because people did it for that reason.
[13:00] Valerie: I think that's. Yeah, that's really great. And you know, one thing that I noticed because I am a huge fan of Japanese matcha, is that I've noticed that the matcha, it can't really ship properly internationally because once it's a certain amount of like its age, a certain amount, or it's been exposed to a certain amount of air, the color changes and then the flavor changes. So like the, the deeper flavor of that matcha doesn't. It doesn't travel well. So even now, like with, you know, with more modern technology, I still find that tea is very delicate in that way. But it also makes it very exciting too because it means like I have to travel to places to, to find the tea that I want.
[13:43] Rafa: Yeah, that's true. Different type of tea, you could be for different length of time. And green tea and matcha, basically we drink them as fresh as possible for oolong tea because they are more processed so they, you can preserve it longer without losing too much of the flavor. Just like some of our customers, they bought a tea from us, they. They don't just open it right after, right after they go home, they probably open it after half a year, one year, two years, three years, that's possible. But our goal is to hope that when customer open the tea, the tea still has good flavor. That's a fundamental reason why we process it.
[14:19] Valerie: Can you tell me a little bit more about your tea and the specialties around Maokong? Because there were a few that you introduced to us that were very unique. I think there's like a tie in tea, Tie Guan Yin tea, that a lot of people don't actually know about here in the United States.
[14:36] Rafa: Okay. So Tie Guan yin basically is a cultivar, is a species of tea. And you came from Fujian province as well. Mandarin tear means iron. And Guanyin is a Chinese goddess. Yeah, so iron goddess. And this Guanyin, this God is more like a God, a goddess of mercy. So she cares about people and always loving, very friendly. And this, according to the legend, this tea was believed to be a gift from the gods herself. Because there was a. There was a farmer who. Whose name is called Weiying. He's a very religious Buddhism person. And I worship the statue of Guanyin every day. And one day he dreamt about Guanyin. Guanyin told. Told him that I have a gift for you, for all the human beings, which is a tea. And in his dream he. He dreamed about like Guan Yin told him to cross the. Cross the mountain. And there's a waterfall behind a mountain. And you got to walk into that waterfall. After that you will found. You'll find a tea. And after this fire woke up, he actually searched for the tea and I found it. And so because the tea that he used it to produce tea and he found the flavor is so good, so he named this tea bush after Guanyin.
[15:56] Valerie: Okay.
[15:57] Rafa: And iron means. Because this tea has a very strong flavor and also the color of it looks very like a rusty, like a bit like a red and dark color. That's the reason why it's called tea. It means iron. It means very strong and rich flavor.
[16:12] Valerie: Yes. And we really enjoyed trying that one. It's very rare to find it here. You might have to go to Taiwan to get it.
[16:19] Rafa: I don't know exactly. Especially the tie Guanin in Taiwan and in China are very different. In Taiwan, it's traditional deep rose craftsmanship. In China, it's more like a green tea. It tastes. The flavor is more refreshing in China. I mean, Taiwan is a totally complete different taste. Because in Taiwan we have preserved a lot of traditional cultures in terms of producing tea as well. So in order to find traditional deep roasted one in rather than go to China, you need to come to Taiwan to be able to experience it in northern part of Taiwan. Taipei.
[16:55] Valerie: Amazing. Yes. So I want to shift gears a little bit and I want to focus a little bit more on your. Your personal story as a team master. So I guess the first question about that is like, how did you choose the path of becoming tea master?
[17:11] Rafa: Basically as a family business, My family has been running tea plants over seven generations. I'm the seventh generation and I'm always have the choice. Just unlike a lot of I receive the question very often. I have a lot of international customer or local customer who ask me, will your parents force you to become a team master? Do you have a choice? It's like, how does it feel? Like, do you really need to take over the business or not? So my father always tell me that if you don't want to be a team master, that's fine. It's all good with it because we also educate other team masters. So he thinks that as long as this industry can continue, he's willing to share what he knows with everybody, including the expertise in production. So if I. If I don't take over this business, if I don't want to become a team master, there are still team masters who got all his knowledge that who can pass down what we know to the future generations. And what motivated me, what makes me want to become a tea master is because I was surprised by our own team. So when I was 13 years old, because when I was a little child, our shop was actually quite remote. It's not like very convenient. Especially before there was no gondola. It's like, it's not a true obstruction at all. Just a mountain place, a small tea store in a. In a. In the mountain. And my father has been awarded by a lot of famous celebrities, mayors and president in Taiwan several times. So people, people knew that my father is a very skillful tea master. He's very profound and professional in tea making. So people were just like, people tried his tea elsewhere and then they came to the mountain for his tea. Like people just like before, the Internet wasn't so good, but people just like figured out their own way to showed up in our tea store. So as a child, I didn't know, like, how would it happen? It's not common. It's like you live somewhere far away. And then people just showed up to buy tea. And I loved our tea so much and I didn't know why. So at the age of 13, I. Before I also drank tea. But I. The age of 13, I smell and try our tea hours like in French, ola la. It's like, this is so good. Well, I, I know it was like I got surprised. You know, some of the customers that came to our shop, they got surprised is that the flavor, the smell is something they have never experienced before. They thought they know what tea it is, but they haven't experienced something like this before. So myself, I was shocked. I was like, I was surprised by our own product. And also the reason why it takes me so long to be able to feel this way is because our infection, which is our smelling organ and our palate, they develop slower. Our peak of our palate is around 25 years old. So actually compared to our brains, our out of body systems, our palate develop slower. So usually people start to understand the beauty of tea around 16, 18 or 20 years old. Because it was when, it's when your, your palates become more sophisticated, you will be able to detect some smells and taste that you didn't, could, couldn't fully understand.
[20:44] Valerie: Yeah.
[20:44] Rafa: And because I was, I drink tea almost every day so I have easier access to good tea. So me is personally a bit earlier than most of the people. I was like 13 years old. And I think because also we, I got used to it so it was easier for me to get into that field.
[21:03] Valerie: You know. Once you got surprised by this, did you, did you decide then and there like I'm going to study this or did you go off and do something else before that?
[21:14] Rafa: Before I fully become the team master. At the age of 13, I. I started to help the family business. Not because I'm fully decided something, just a family business. Just my father always told I have an older brother, Small always told my brother whose name is Howie. And he always told us that it's okay for you to not become a tea Master, but you gotta always remember what brought us up. It's just like tea is basically our income, our family's income. So without being a tea master, but we gotta still memorize that tea is so important to us because it's where the money came from.
[21:53] Valerie: Right.
[21:54] Rafa: So always gotta remember this. Tea is important to us. It has a special meaning to us. For everybody, it's just a drink. But for us, for the family that has been running this business for so long, it has a special meaning. Yeah, definitely the work experience. It's like before I became a tea master, I also, I have done a lot of jobs. I also, when I was college student, I also taught English a little bit. And as an English teacher and I also went to the US as a gain operator in amusement park in Pennsylvania.
[22:29] Valerie: Yeah, that's really interesting.
[22:30] Rafa: Yeah. Also I studied in Europe for one year and then after I came back to Taiwan, I work in an optical lens company that basically are. My previous company was like taking customized orders to create lenses for cars, for street lighting, for like Tesla, for Mercedes, for different kind of usage in terms of the LED optical lenses.
[22:57] Valerie: Yeah. So I want to ask you a little bit more about this journey because I think that, you know, for a lot of us in life, it, it takes several turns, right. Before we really find a path that we resonate with. And you've had a really interesting one because like, you know, when we came to your shop, we noticed one, you speak really good English, but then we also learned that you speak Spanish. Right. And so I, I think you have a very unique international perspective. I guess my first question is, what led you to choose to study abroad?
[23:31] Rafa: I, I chose to study abroad because I studied when I was a college student. My major was in English and Spanish. And since I, I learned Spanish, I, I think why not to go to Spain, give it a try and, but life is always full of surprises. I didn't have any expectation on, on Spain or Europe. It's just like, I got no idea. I know Europe is like, it's different, but I got no ideas about how Europe should look like and how about the people there, the lifestyle, everything. I, I got no clues. I thought I, I understand Europe just like, but actually I, I got there and I was able to live there for a, quite a, a good decent amount of time. And then that changed my h back completely. So I, I go to, I went to Europe because, not because I, I have so much, I have so many plans or something. Just like I study Spanish and I say I gotta check it out. That's it. Very simple. Yeah, I'm always open to a new, new things. I, I always want to try new.
[24:38] Valerie: Things, which is really great. I think that's what expands our world perspective and also challenges us in terms of your experience studying abroad because like, you didn't have any expectations and you didn't really have like a goal. Did you find yourself like discovering something new about yourself or being challenged in a certain way?
[25:03] Rafa: I don't feel any, I didn't went through any like setbacks in America or in Europe because I think I'm always open to new things. So in terms of food, some of my classmates, they didn't get used to eating bread every day. They're okay with bread, but not every day because they mainly eat rice or noodles in Taiwan. But in Spain they eat bread every day. It's like they're their staple. And for me it's okay. Rice, noodles and bread, I don't know. Other things might be okay. Anything is okay for me. And so in terms of that I was okay. And in terms of the lifestyle, I think it was quite great as well. Different climate, dryer. And we didn't drink tea, they were drinking wine. All right, we drank a lot of wine. Beer and in Spain. But the coffee shop where they sell beers and drink the alcohol everywhere. Just like seven live in Taiwan. Basically the street photo bars and cafes.
[26:10] Valerie: Yeah. Did you drink coffee?
[26:13] Rafa: Yeah, I tried. I personally, I'm more sensitive to caffeine. So if I drink too much, if I drink too much caffeine, I will have a diarrhea. Tea has. That's the problem.
[26:25] Valerie: I guess so, yeah. So, you know, the, the caffeine and tea and the caffeine and coffee does feel pretty different. Does your. Because I, I'm guessing you drink tea every day, right?
[26:35] Rafa: Yeah.
[26:36] Valerie: Does it increase your tolerance for it at all?
[26:39] Rafa: It depends. Depends on what kind of tea that you drink. If it's green tea. Green tea is very caffeinated or some. It also something has something to do with the quality. If it's like a low quality tea, it naturally has. It's more caffeinated. Interesting. So there are a lot of things that we need to take into consideration also how you brew it. By which temperature. If it's higher temperature, more caffeine will be released during the brewing process. If it's lower brewing temperature, you will have less caffeine.
[27:07] Valerie: Is that true for both tea and coffee?
[27:11] Rafa: I think so, yeah.
[27:12] Valerie: Okay.
[27:12] Rafa: Coffee. If you use a lower temperature to brew, you will release less caffeine. Same as tea.
[27:19] Valerie: All right, so going back to your. Your experiences abroad, right. Because you, you worked in both the States and, and Spain and I know you had a. You're pretty easygoing, but were there any things that gave you any type of culture shock?
[27:33] Rafa: Culture shock.
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[28:08] Rafa: Probably in the U.S. america. Right. I. I was like. Because the place I. The amusement park that I worked for is a very local amusement park called Knobos in Pennsylvania, in Bloomsburg. Basically. It's in a central part of Pennsylvania. It's a very small town. Almost like 98% or 99% of the local people there are white people.
[28:32] Valerie: Right.
[28:33] Rafa: So. So the racial diversity is quite. Not no much. There's no racial diversity, you know, on the street, there's almost no black people. There's a few Asian in the whole. In the whole town.
[28:45] Valerie: Okay.
[28:46] Rafa: So there's no other. Other international races or just basically just white people. And. But in particular my colleagues. My colleagues is an old grandpa, like he called them redneck. He called himself another people redneck. I know it's rude. I don't mean to offend them. He told me that these people, because there's a farming industry in them, you barely see no small cars. Most of them drive trucks.
[29:16] Valerie: Right.
[29:17] Rafa: So for me and for a lot of concept of America, this is still like real countryside America.
[29:24] Valerie: Yeah.
[29:24] Rafa: Not like New York, not like California. It's totally different. It's real, real America. More like a cowboy style. So just for me, the cultural shock is we know America is a melting pot and it has all different voices and all different liberal thinking. But actually the place I went to, people were very friendly, but in terms of thinking, they actually quite closed. They just like a lot of people, they don't go out of the town.
[29:54] Valerie: Right.
[29:54] Rafa: They have spent their whole life in a town. So to me, that was. That was surprising because in Taiwan we go traveling very frequently. And I think in America, because it's so big and people, I suppose, assume that people should go out very often, but it turns out to be the opposite. People have never been out of the town their entire lives.
[30:16] Valerie: Yeah. In some cases, right?
[30:18] Rafa: Yeah.
[30:18] Valerie: Yeah.
[30:19] Rafa: And one thing I want to share is I think culture shock is in America you could talk to anybody. It's just like small talks are common. You see a random person on the street, you could just talk to them and then that person will definitely respond you usually in a very positive way. I think in Taiwan, people are forensic, but people don't really talk to strangers for no reasons. In America, just greet each other.
[30:47] Valerie: Yeah.
[30:48] Rafa: Not because you want to do something or you want to chat or something, just greet them. You have a small talk for 30 seconds and you go away. You don't see each other for the rest of your life. Just like normal. So you talk. In America, people Talk to each other easily. And a short conversation. In Taiwan, we don't do that.
[31:06] Valerie: Yeah. Oh, which is funny because I think that you picked up this American tradition of small talk. You're actually very good at it.
[31:13] Rafa: Yeah, I love it. I love to talk to different people very easily. And not just in Taiwan. In Asia in general, if you just talk to a random, like a stranger on the street, people will become very defensive.
[31:27] Valerie: Yeah.
[31:28] Rafa: People don't know what you are doing. If you are trying to do something, there must be a purpose. Right. People would, like, naturally assume that you have a purpose, you want to do something. But in America, it's not people just. Yeah, talk. Talk is talk. There's nothing will happen. It's just normal. But I didn't love that. So when I. When I got back to Taiwan, I also sort of do that in Taiwan. I could start a small talk with anybody. So I went to America before I got. I went to Europe. So I think Europe is quite similar. They don't have much small talk as American do. But when I went to Europe, it's like, great. It was easier for me to make new friends and talk to more people because I used to. I got used to it so I could talk to anybody I met.
[32:13] Valerie: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. I think this is something that a lot of people. Because even in America, Right. For those of us who grew up with immigrant parents, like, my parents are from Taiwan. Yeah. So but we. We grew up a lot with. In my house at least, very much with, like, Chinese and Taiwanese customs. Right. And so I grew up a little bit more reserved and not. Not really liking to talk to other people and strangers. Right. But then as I started to go to school and everything, I found that, yeah, like, a lot of people do like to explore and talk to each other and stuff. So I'm still very shy, even now at, like, age 36. But I think I've gotten used to it, like, being a little bit more out of my shell. So. Yeah, I do appreciate that too, with American culture. Okay, so why did you choose this small town in Pennsylvania?
[33:08] Rafa: Because I went to America through. There's an institute between the US Government and Thailand's government. There's agreement, like, they allow students to go to America for summer. We were able to work there for about two months and one month for traveling. So the visa was like. Was for students, and it allows students to go to America to work for a small amount of time. So in terms of the place that we could work for, there were Quite many options, including the national park as well. Also Six Flags, a lot of different amusement park. Yellowstone as well. I eventually chose that place to go to because I. I haven't. I have no idea about Pennsylvania. The same. It's like, I don't give too much assumptions on something. I just think this place, I. I got no clues and I. I don't hear this stage very often for me. So I decided to check it out to see what's going on. And I checked the map. This place is like in the middle of nowhere. It's not a big city. So I think it would be pretty fun for me to go to a place that most people wouldn't go to. Like that. That town is like most American haven't been to. But like, I think it's cool for me to experience something different because I could go to New York, I could go to California, other major cities anytime I want to because it's something. Somewhere I probably will definitely visit in the future. But there are some areas, like if you don't visit right now, you probably don't visit in the rest of your life. That's why I wanted to give it a try today. I want to give it first try to somewhere different.
[34:51] Valerie: Yeah, I love that there. It sounds like you're a person who's ready to just be in the moment and take in new things and not have too many expectations, which I really appreciate because I think it's a. That's also a pretty rare quality in.
[35:09] Rafa: Particular, I think, because I sort of been thinking humanity since I was very little. So as long as we understand humanity, I think everything is okay. Because some people, it's like. Oh, they probably experience, I would say, discrimination. There's still discrimination to some degree. But I think America, people don't really discriminate other people based on how they look. But people in America discriminate on the fluency of your English. Just like if you are international visitor, not just like immigrants, if you are a visitor, but if you don't speak English. Because Americans, they don't speak. Most of them don't speak other languages. So if you don't speak good English, people just like think they sort of like would judge you on that.
[35:57] Valerie: Right.
[35:58] Rafa: So that's where the discrimination mostly came from. For me, I didn't really have such a problem because I. I feel okay to use English to communicate and express myself. And I. I don't know, I just. I'm a very tough person. It's like when they violate my rights, I'm.
[36:16] Valerie: I'm.
[36:17] Rafa: Like American, you know, I stand out, I will stand out for myself. So I think this kind of message, it's like people can feel it or something. So when you have the confidence within yourself and then people are just like I free them very friendly. They treat me very friendly as well. And also in Taiwan we have discrimination as well. Just like different country. The cases are just different.
[36:41] Valerie: Yes, this is very true. I think what you're getting at too is you're able to vibe with especially like in America or like when you were abroad. So you're able to vibe with other people and like connect with them. Because I think of that idea of humanity that you are. You seem to be humanity first rather than like oh, Taiwan first or America first, you know, that type of thinking.
[37:06] Rafa: Everybody, everybody is the same because when I was my. When I you know, Taiwan and China, there's a conflict between China and Taiwan and also there's a lot of diplomatic relationship with the whole world right now especially we have, we have wars in 2024. We got wars going on.
[37:25] Valerie: Yeah.
[37:26] Rafa: At this moment. And I think that is something hard to imagine. Like in current world we still have wars. So when I was little I saw all the news with my parents. It's like this. There was so much conflicts and dispute on a lot of things. So my father told, told me that if alien attacks the Earth everybody sin. It's just like we are. We feel like oh I'm Taiwanese, I'm Japanese, I'm American, I'm European. It's like because we don't. We don't view things from a broader perspective. We still view ourselves in a very restrictive ideas Human just are humans we are all the same when probably after. Because Elon Musk is going to go to Mars. He has a plan. Right. We probably will migrate out of the Earth in the future. So probably after 500 years you will be surprised in a different planet to be able to see a person from the earth. So it's like a hometown. You know, you've probably seen a Jupiter and say oh, you're from the Earth. I'm also from the Earth. So at that time you wouldn't care about if you are like Taiwan or China is so small. Right your will be surprised. You're from Galaxy as well.
[38:43] Valerie: Yes. So I mean that's what I. That I hope would happen. Like even I would love it to happen today, you know but it just to be able to see that a lot of these labels that we put on ourselves are very superficial. So yeah, I, you know I think along the same lines of that. How has your experience abroad now influenced your journey as a team master?
[39:13] Rafa: Oh, it definitely has a big influence on me. I didn't went through a lot of setbacks, but it, it changed a lot of me. Especially when I. But during the training process ourselves wouldn't be able to notice that because when I, when I came back from. I first went to America, then I went to Spain and I traveled to 25 countries and I got back to Taiwan. So my parents, they feel like there's something different in me. Not, not in a positive way. Just like they think that I always have a lot of thoughts. It's just like I sort of always want to challenge or give different perspective on everything. Just like the way how I feel things have altered without me knowing it. Because I have, I've seen so many different things. I probably because I also abroad finance, it's like I speak English, I speak Spanish and I've been to different countries. When you speak a foreign language, you try to think it's a different mindset. You think differently because in that culture you are a different person. Just like it's where, it's where the language will shape a person. So the more cultures that you've been to that you have, you have experienced, the more diverse you will think just like in Spain is okay for you to take a rest for two hours, probably for lunch break. And they, but they, they actually work for eight hours or nine hours as well. They get off work at 9pm, 8pm or 9pm which is quite late because they take a longer siesta. People, people thought that they only work for like four hours, five hours. It's not true. They just take a longer break. But also they prolong their, their day, their time to get off the work. So it's a different perspective. It's just in Taiwan you only take a rest for one hour or half an hour. So in terms of many small things, I will think differently. Just like everything is okay, everything's possible for me. As long as you accommodate, well, you feel it, well, it's okay. It's all about mindsets. It's about how we think. I've been recently shared with people. It's like being retired is a mindset, it's not a status. If I fail, I'm retired. I'm retired right now. I could be retired at the age of 30 or 40, 50, anytime I want retire. Being retired is an option. It's like you don't need to worry about if you will be hungry for the next meal. As long as you have options, you could be retired anytime you want. You go to work to experience. It's just like we are physically attend to that place, but mentally you can be retired just like I. To some people it's like hard to relate to it, just like, because people don't like to work. But for me, work is fun. I work in amusement park, I, I went to different countries. I also work in a different industry. And for me, work is always fun. Yeah, I always try to amuse myself, you know, because life is hard and if you don't find the fun part of it, it's just like you come here to soccer, we come here to experience great things. I think that's the meaning of life. We come to this, this world to experience something extraordinary, something good, something bad. But just like the proportion most people put on focus too much on the bad things and they focus too little on the good things. So by changing our mindset, I think we, we could nourish ourselves better and spiritually simply by changing our mindset.
[42:52] Valerie: Absolutely. I want to applaud that.
[42:55] Rafa: So thank you.
[42:57] Valerie: You know, one of the greatest memories I had when we visited your shop in Mao Kong is to hear you talk about how tea ties into that philosophy. So if you can share a little bit of that, like why, how can tea help us live better on a, on a grander scale of things?
[43:17] Rafa: Just like I share with you, I'll say to the audience one more time, because I think drinking tea is a choice. And the reason why people drink tea and appreciate the beauty of tea, because they start to think deeply about how their lives should be. You gotta imagine like, what kind of life you expect to become of yourself. And drinking tea is definitely a choice. When you have a choice, why don't we choose a better way to live our lives? So I think start from drinking tea. It means start from paying attention to small things around us. Just like people would say go to gym as well. But little by little, you care about things around you. And for teas, you care about the smell, you care about the taste, you care about. Tea really calms you down. When drinking tea, you probably need to prepare something. It calms you down in the process. When you drink it, you start to treat yourself better. You always treat yourself better. You know, as long as you treat yourself better in many different things, you become a better person without knowing it. You care about your skin condition, your health. You care about what you eat, what you drink, what you do, what kind of books you read and what kind of context you've been evoking yourself to. It's all about choices. So drinking definitely is a. Is a choice, a good choice. Just like clothing, you know, you could wear a T shirt every day. You could wear very good, stylish clothes every day. It's the same light, but people will view it differently. You also, most importantly, you will feel yourself differently. Yeah, it's just like positive, always, like a positivity within your heart.
[44:53] Valerie: Absolutely. And that's so beautifully said. And it also ties back into what you said before about languages and culture and how you're kind of. You take on a different personality, even different mindset when you speak a different language. And I think the drinking the tea and doing all these things, it just creates more intention for life. And so if we believe in our own potential and we believe in the. The idea that we're here to experience extraordinary things, whether they be difficult or not, you know, we can continue to make the small choices that make our life, that enrich our lives.
[45:30] Rafa: That's. That's true. There's several books that I want to share with you. One. Yeah, this one, it's a Ray Dalio. It's called Principles.
[45:41] Valerie: Ray Dalio.
[45:42] Rafa: Yeah. And this, I think the. The author is the founder of an investment company. He's a very rich person, and he wrote this book, Principles. It's about how he treats things. Not. Not principle doesn't mean that you are a very strict person, always following rules. It's just about you need to understand yourself. So basically, this book talks about how should we understand ourselves. You got to set principles. You need to make yourself clear to everybody. It's like as long as your principle within yourself, you know who you are. You got boundaries, and you clearly express it to other people around you. People know who you are. Most people, it's like, we got. We sort of like, think why people treat me this way. Why. Why people don't understand me? It's because sometimes we don't express ourselves clearly enough. And that. That priority is like, we don't understand ourselves, so we don't know how to tell people who we are. Oh, so this book is talking about, you gotta know yourself first. You gotta know what you cared about in lives and express it to other people, and you stick with it so that what makes you shape a better person. Also, there's a book called Adrift. Okay, Adrift. This author, basically, he has been staying alone in the ocean for 76 days with a very, very small boat.
[47:04] Valerie: Okay.
[47:05] Rafa: Because he took a big boat out and then. And he met so like a typhoon and his boat crushed. So he had a safe. How do you say, the small boats, like for preparation for safety boats?
[47:18] Valerie: Yeah, those rescue boats or something.
[47:20] Rafa: Yeah, rescue boats. He stay in that rescue boat for 76 days. And he ran out of the food for the first one or two weeks. It's like he ran out of food very fast. So it was like, very lonely. It's like this book is talking about the loneliness within your heart. And 76 days, every minute you spend with yourself in the ocean. That's incredible. Even by. Imagine that it's just like, so different. But of course, we couldn't experience that by ourselves. And that's not suggested. But it's good to see people's story and then picturing ourselves in that scenario. I think I always, like, benefited so much in people's stories.
[48:01] Valerie: Oh, I'd love to read it. So that's called Adrift by this one by. Yeah, Stephen Callahan.
[48:08] Rafa: Exactly.
[48:08] Valerie: Okay.
[48:09] Rafa: So many books. I have read a lot of books. And this too is like. So you definitely could find the English version because the author, they speak English.
[48:19] Valerie: Okay, well, I'll definitely include this so that the audience can also access this. I'll leave it in the show notes. So I have a few last questions for you. And this is more to envision the future, because since you have this worldview that I really appreciate, I want to know how you see yourself. Like, what vision do you have for yourself in the future? And then what vision do you have for tea and Taiwanese tea in the future?
[48:45] Rafa: So I'll talk about the future of tea in Taiwan first. And so basically, I am always positive about tea industry in Taiwan because people started to drink tea started from 5,000 years ago. And that's a very, very long time. Probably dynasty will rise and fall, but people keep doing the same thing. That's a cultural stuff. Tea is the most important cultural drain in Taiwanese people or Chinese people's mind. Just. Just like wine as well or whiskey. No matter which country, it becomes that people just keep doing the same culture. They practice the same culture. So tea is beautiful itself and it's harmful and neutral. Tea is always neutral. That's what I like about tea. It's a good. It's a good tool to. To link people together. You don't speak a language, but you could drink it and you can feel that culture. So I think it's always a good platform and tool to connect people together. So as long as. As long as it's a spiritual, cultural platform, and tool is strong, it's strong there. It's just like it, just like it does no harms. So even there's a war, you don't destroy this industry. You still want to drink tea. It's something that heals yourself. You know, even you like a fight, you do something, you want to destroy something, but you don't touch this part. It's a cultural part. And it's not like, it's not like religions, you know, some religions like you gotta, you agree to it or you disagree with it, but tea just like everybody's okay with it, it's just tea. Yeah, tea definitely has a great future in the future. And on top of that, because the global warming is continuing, it's happening. So I think in the future it will be harder and harder for people to be able to get the access to good tea because the climate might change, might alter the quality of over the, over the tea. So right now still, we still have very good tea and the prices are very reasonable, very good price. In the future it might be like you spend 50 times, 100 times the prices to buy the same quality of tea right now.
[51:01] Valerie: Yeah.
[51:02] Rafa: So to be able to enjoy it right now, it's just like I personally drink a lot of tea right now and I encourage people to try it if they could.
[51:12] Valerie: Absolutely. I mean I love, love tea. There are so many, I have so many cans of tea right now on my wall and it is every time I go anywhere in Taiwan or in Japan where I make sure that I get some. So definitely hope that it stays strong in the future.
[51:28] Rafa: So what's the first question? I just want to.
[51:31] Valerie: Oh yeah. For yourself. What is your vision for yourself in the future?
[51:35] Rafa: Oh yeah, I, I've been thinking about this question very often because I'm still young, I'm actually just 28.
[51:42] Valerie: Oh, okay.
[51:43] Rafa: So I'm still very young. So. But I, I started to think this question when I was like 22, just like asking myself what kind of person do I want to become in the future. But there's so, so many different changes in our lives because you don't know what will happen. You know what, I'm 28, but I, I always think about what if I die in the next minute because anything could happen which could just go on a street and get hit by the car and I don't know what will happen for tomorrow. So in the future I definitely hope that I always remain a positive person and always embrace new ideas and talk to more people. Always like stay liberal, open minded and to experience good things. I would love to travel to Africa, in South American countries like Bolivia, Peru, like Panama, these countries, to. To see something that. That is so different. So that that's my goal, to visit more countries as possible and experience people's culture and lives. And me as myself, I want to keep being, keep producing, stabilize what we produce because we produce very good tea. I think my family's tea is the best in the world. I strongly believe that our tea, the perfumey smell and the taste, is the best in the world. So my goal is to continuously produce them and share with all the international visitors who come to Taiwan. I want them to get surprised. You know, they come in no matter they want to buy or not. Just like if okay with me. I don't care if people buy or not. I just want to share what we have with, with every. Everyone who comes into our shop. So I want to keep doing that. And I also want to listen just like you. I benefit a lot from you because you started this broadcast. You try to motivate other people. That's a very good concept. I personally want to do that, but I'm not motivated enough to be able to do a broadcast this long and share many things with other people. I can only share with my own story through your platform with other people. That's a great thing. So, yeah, I think I want to talk to more people and to learn different perspectives from other people. That will be the best thing for me in the future.
[54:14] Valerie: Beautiful. All right, well, those are all the questions that I have for you today. Rafa, really sincerely, thank you for coming on to talk with us and share your story and your perspective and just the beauty of tea in Taiwan. Is there anything else you want the audience to know? Any last thoughts before we finish for.
[54:34] Rafa: Today, I want everybody, all the audience who have have the chance to be listening to this podcast to stay positive. And when you are going through any depression right now, just think about your family, think about yourself, think about this world. There are so many things that we haven't experienced at this point. So I know it's hard to go through depressions sometimes. We got just feel stuck there. You could have move it forward and we need somebody else to help you out a little bit. But I just want people to remember one thing. Think about the things that we haven't experienced. Experience them before you die. Okay? If you think about this, you won't. You won't go choose to. To death easily. You don't give up easily. It's just like it's a process. We go through depression for better tomorrow.
[55:27] Valerie: Awesome. Thank you so much, Rafa.
[55:30] Rafa: All right, thanks for having me.
