[00:00] Valerie: Rise, Renew, reconnect. Welcome to from the Ashes, a podcast where every episode ignites hope and healing. In the spring of 2022, Cate Stillman starts bleeding at the beginning of her trip to Europe. And it continues for days to weeks to months. This was the start of what would become her journey, documented in her book, Witch's Cancer Journal. Cate is my guest today, and since we dive straight into the depths of her healing journey, I wanted to provide you with the context of our discussion. Her book, which in her own words, she has said will discuss the naive, infuriate the mainstream, and invoke skepticism in the open minded. Her journey is not for the faint of heart. And some of what Cate has to share will indeed surprise and challenge you. So I invite you to allow yourself to be curious, to be challenged, and to explore further. Enjoy my conversation with Cate Stillman.
[01:09] Valerie: All right, everyone. Welcome back to from the Ashes. I am your host, Valerie Beck, and today I have a very special guest, my coach and journey leader for the past year or so, Cate Stillman. She's the founder of Yoga Healer Club, Thrive Club, Hero Wellness Pro Academy, and has done just so much in the world of wellness. She's the author of books such as Body Thrive, Master of you and Uninflamed, and most recently, which is Cancer Journal. And she has had an incredible personal journey as well, and it's been such a pleasure to get to know her the past year or so, So welcome, Cate.
[01:45] Cate: Thanks, Valerie. Thanks for having me.
[01:47] Valerie: Yay. I'm very excited to have you here. So let's get right into it, shall we? Okay. All right. So I know all about what you've been through and your journey and what you do in the world, but my audience doesn't necessarily. So let's start them off with a story about yourself and particularly a From the Ashes story. So I always ask my interviewees to tell a story about a moment in time or experience they've had where they've really had to pick up the pieces and start over. Valerie: So I'll let you have the floor.
[02:21] Cate: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, the in which is Cancer Journal. I really like, kind of get into how I ended up, you know, down half my half the amount of blood you should have in your body and post, post sort of surprise operation with a radical hysterectomy and a blood transfusion. And at the same time, I had decided to add a layer on, on like literally like the same week on top of my existing brands, which were Yoga Healer and Yoga Health Coaching, which I had built over one over 20 years, one over 10 years. And the brands were no longer fitting as like my scope of practice had gone outside of yoga. And so that was definitely a like what, like what am I doing? Like what, like what is known, what is unknown and all that and all that going on. So the piece of it with the cancer, you know, post, I know a lot from holistic medicine. I've been in ayurvedic medicine practitioner for, you know, whatever a couple decades and my dad had lynch syndrome. So there's a lot of which is a. It's like a pre. Is it a precursor to cancer with epigenetics? I don't know. I wrote a book on it on inflamed. Like there's a lot of research either way, but I had about a 70% chance of having cancer before I was 50 and I knew that since I was about 30. And a lot of my sort of proactive path with uninflamed is, you know, I was living that. I was living that path. So the post like, I think the hardest thing as far as like from the ashes is like post op the way the medical system works, which I really wouldn't have ended up in, I don't think unless I'd lost so much blood. And it was really. That was really the, that was really what got me into the hospital and the surgeries I, I had bled out. Which is a bizarre experience. Is the, you know, post when you're in the system, most people. What most people experience and I think for me it was. There's just a lot of acute contrast and also had a different skill set in my ability to handle it is there's a lot of peer pressure within the system to do what the doctors want you to do, which is basically like chemo and radiation, both of which I knew way too much about having had lynch syndrome. My dad's had cancer four times. My aunt died of cancer. I've just seen a lot very, very up close. My best friend's mom died of cancer. But the question is always of do they die of the cancer? They drive the treatment. Right. And so for me navigating that was probably the deepest sort of like in the, in the depth journey that I've been where, you know, just feeling not like myself, not my, you know, normal, like strong muscular self and in this like different body and just sort of wondering how to navigate other people's fears as I made the decisions that I wanted to make for my body and my life.
[05:36] Valerie: All right, so there's A lot of different questions I want to ask, of course. And, you know, so I. When I read Witch's cancer journal, what really struck me and what you've said about the book, actually, is that it's a journal, right? So it's not a book to guide other people. This is really just your experience of whatever was happening and your thoughts about it. And I really appreciate that because it's like there are a lot of things that we will never know. And, you know, I think it's really valuable to see things from somebody's eyes and what you're thinking as you're going through this. Right? And so I want to ask you, because I feel like when it was happening, you didn't. Like, you knew there was something wrong, but at the same time, there was a lot of maybe denial or maybe like, confusion and, you know, what was going on in your. What were you telling yourself at the time?
[06:33] Cate: You know, it was interesting because my friend Rachel Resnick, who. Her company's writers on fire, and she was the one who, after I. I think I was maybe this was like, right around the time where I was getting a lot of pressure from my parents around, you know, doing what the doctors wanted me to do, particularly like radiation and whatnot. And I had a number of. Just sort of. Just sort of the whole thing. When I told her, you know, my stories about how the whole thing had gone down, and she was like, you need to write these down. Like, you need to capture the butterflies. Like you won't remember. Like, you just will not remember what actually happened. And so that's when I started, like, backtracking and writing. It was like January 2022. And, you know, a lot of the diagnoses seem with. With really any kind of modern disease. A lot of the diagnoses are positioned as. As non. I guess, as. As really non invasive as not altering the path of healing. And it's so not true. Like, the testing is. The testing is so bad, whether it's like, you know, radiation for detection, whether it's like a. I had a limp. I had a lymph biopsy in my left groin, which I'm still recovering from, right? So, like, what did I feel then? It was hard to know what was the cancer and what was just actually part of the things that were happening because I hit a nerve on the biopsy. So all of a sudden I had, like, just insane nerve pain and it. And it was also hard to say what was going on because I was in overnight menopause, right? So, like, all Of a sudden, my estrogen and progesterone production just plummet. And so there's just so much of, like, what's what. Like, what's the cancer? What's from. What's from these, you know, biopsies and scans and just taking me off of my healing path. And I get that for some people, it totally works, and it's not for me. This wasn't about what works for other people. This was what I know about lynch syndrome, like lynch syndrome, for example. The. The studies on lynch and chemo are. Are, like, pretty, like, bad to inconclusive. And I just knew from my family history that chemo doesn't work for the cancers that my family gets. So that was, like, a huge edge that I had over my doctors. But they didn't know. And when I asked them about the research, it wasn't there. So, like, what was I feeling? Like there's just so much of separating my path from the, like, what you're supposed to do according to culture and according to, you know, family values. And then, you know, I have a daughter and a husband, and they were kind of over it, you know, like, they're just like. They wanted their old life back. Right. And I was trying to, like, minimize my fear and my choices for them, you know, in a lot of ways. So. And I think I also was just super ******* curious. Yeah. You know?
[09:52] Valerie: Yeah.
[09:53] Cate: Like, I had run into the point in that fall. I had run to the. I had run into the point where actually I got my dates wrong. So that was January 2023. So I'd run into the point in that and that fall, which was, like, October 2022, when I was, like, trying to just finish uninflamed and, like, wrap it up and chip it out and trying to figure out, like, what does heal the microbiome. From my 20 years of just research in Ayurveda and then later in Primal Habits, I've really kind of come to the grand conclusion that healing is free. Right. Like, if we're really on the right path with it, like, what heals us is free. And I was running into all these studies on these signature. They're like these signature microbiome drugs that will be coming out for cancer in the next few years. And they're super expensive, right, because they're these, like, designer, like, microbiome injections, essentially, where we're, like, getting the microbes, right? And I'm like, it just doesn't make any sense. Like, why not just get all of the microbes and let the body kind of sort it out. Like, what is that? And that's where I really, at the end, was just running into fecal. Like, what is happening with fecal implants? They used to call them transplants, now they call them implants. And. And that brought me into, like, the cow dung research, which is so crazy. And I just feel like, you know, at that time as well, I was also feeling. It was like, it's just so crazy that my path brought me into urine therapy and cow dung therapy, which are like, probably the most. I mean, obviously unsanitary, but also just like on. It's just super taboo and unpopular ways of healing. And there was a little bit of, like, why the **** me? Like, why do I have to be the one who is going to actually, like, publish on this stuff?
[11:53] Valerie: Okay.
[11:54] Cate: And my publisher was so not interested. Like, they were just like. Like everywhere around me was just like, stop. Like, can you just stop all this. Stop the cancer stuff. Stop the **** and the pee stuff and just like, be normal.
[12:08] Valerie: So I find this super fascinating because it was kind of happening in real time. Like, I met you in late 2023. So it was happening then. And Uninflamed was published. I guess as you were going through this as well.
[12:24] Cate: Right.
[12:24] Valerie: And so you were writing a book where you have to have a lot of conviction already about healing. And then like, the cancer journey hits and it's. It's almost like it's there to test your faith a little bit.
[12:41] Cate: Yeah.
[12:43] Valerie: And in what you're writing. So how did. How did writing Uninflamed, like, first, how to inform your journey into your cancer healing experience and also, how did it. So in terms of informing your cancer healing experience and then also, like, how did it shape your mindset going into it?
[13:05] Cate: Yeah. Yeah. So. And I just want to explain to those listening so Uninflamed, which. That book started out as Wild Habits, which was maybe a better title. But I really wanted to speak to the outcome of. We're living in a chronic inflammation culture globally at this point. And chronic inflammation causes chronic disease and all that data is in. And so most people right now will die of chronic inflammatory diseases. And it's diet and lifestyle driven. So my work, my previous work with Body Thrive, the book and the community I developed, this global community I developed, including a certification program that trained wellness professionals to coach the circadian rhythm habits. And that's basically what Body Thrive was, was just circadian rhythm habits wrapped in a yogic philosophy. Right. Just in. In terms of the Actual, like, why does this stuff work? How long have people been doing it, and where is it in the ancient teachings? And then what arose out of that community was the primal habits, which surprised me because I wasn't looking for a project. Like, I was like, this is humming along. This is great. This works great. And then all of a sudden, my community is, like, doing primal habits, and I'm sort of, like, documenting and, like, what's going on? And why are people getting, like, amazing results from primal habits, which are a level before agriculture, Right? So agriculture starts, and then people are still living in circadian rhythm habits until basically the advent of electricity, like, more or less. Although we had already adopted a number of different habits because of food storage that we just didn't have when we were primal. So what I found in my very future, my very, like, future meets ancient evolutionary community growth group, was that, you know, as a leader, I would build a structure for the community to evolve. And the community was evolving. And they went. We went primal. Like, I was starting to go primal. They were going primal. Uh, and then I was like, why is this working? Like, what's the research on this? And how do I tell the research story? Not just from a. What's going on in, you know, modern allopathic medicine studies, which are largely produced by pharmaceutical funding, but, like, from, like, an ancient wisdom meets modern science, you know, and pulling some of those pharmaceutical funding studies in? Um. So, like, the adventure wasn't. I don't know. For me, the. The call to adventure isn't much of a call to adv. It's more of, like, a referendum or something. It's like a mandate. It's like, there's not. There's not, like, a call in heeding the call. There's just like, this is what is. And that's been my path with Dharma. It's. I realize it's unusual, but it's just always been that way for me, since I was young. And so it was like, okay, this is just what is. So this is what we're doing, and this is. This is what's next. And, like, like it or not is unglamorous and unpopular as this is going to be. I'm just going to see where it goes.
[16:13] Valerie: Did you have resistance to it?
[16:16] Cate: No. No, I didn't have. I mean, it just became more and more. I mean, especially with urine therapy. And that was really the deeper question behind uninflamed, because urine therapy was working for my members for, I mean, everything from hormonal imbalance to healing bone Breaks and people in their 60s to clearing up candida and infection. I mean, it was just like working for so many things. And I was like, why? Like, what. What do we not know? And I read all the books on it, and I'm like, there's some really, really big pieces missing. And the big. The big piece that I feel like I uncovered and if it existed before, please, you know, anyone listening, please send it to me because I would love to read. Was that basically, urine is the fertilizer of the microbiomes of the body. Right. And that. That piece was lost, you know, that piece. Or maybe we didn't know because the microbiome really wasn't documented until about 2012. I mean, it was understood in the late 1800s as terrain theory. And you could say it was understood in the Vedic text of something like the field. Like, you get these references to the field and the seed. So the field is the microbiome. And, you know, the seed could be like human DNA. So it's like, there's some references, but it's not very clear. And people didn't know the what in the house. So there was a little bit. I feel like it's now just like my joke. It's like a really good joke and free talks. It's just like, oh, what was me? Like, I have to be the one that just sort of writes the science behind and tries to popularize it while embedded. And a larger package of other primal habits which are much more palatable now, like cryotherapy and intermittent fasting and fast mimicking and the use of psychedelics, both for the microbiome and also for just communication and gut brain access. So, like, a lot of these super taboo habits are now really popular and well studied. I'd say urine therapy and cow dung therapy are still on the side of completely unpalatable, very primal, very. You know, a lot of doctors I talk to are know, they still say, well, urine is sterile. It's like, no, it's not. There's really good research on the bacteria that are found in urine, because urine's a. You know, it's a fingerprint of everything else that's in the. That's in the blood.
[18:41] Valerie: I mean, it would be as simple as putting a microscope to it, right?
[18:42] Cate: Well, they had to. It was a 2023 study. They actually had to. Or maybe no earlier than that, 2018, maybe they had to. They had to basically, like, increase the power of the microscope to pick up lower molecular weight. So like, tiny, tiny, tiny. Right. Unless it's Dysbiotic. So if someone has a raging uti, then those bacteria were showing up, but they're like, well, that's disease. But they didn't realize that there's like literally like probiotic bacteria in the urine, which the urine therapist had already been some degree not really talking about, but like some degree talking about that like everything is, that's in your blood is in your urine. So it was that lower molecular weight. They did a study on a bunch of 13 year old boys and they found like 10 probiotic species in their urine. Yeah. Wild.
[19:40] Valerie: All right, let's talk about. Well, one just really interesting thing because I was just in Japan and I was my. With my friend, she's able to kind of put a different, or give me different perspectives on health. And so apparently in Japanese, like the term for diseases like diabetes and other chronic inflammatory diseases is lifestyle and diet driven diseases. If you were to just directly translate from Japanese, which I thought was really funny, that that connection is just so blatantly there in the language.
[20:16] Cate: Like if it's in the language and this is so important of what is in the language. Yeah.
[20:26] Valerie: But you know, I think that, that there's not quite that consciousness right now, especially in American culture and like the, the connection between what we're doing to our bodies and like how that actually affects our bodies.
[20:40] Cate: Well, in Japan is, is I believe the only industrialized country that doesn't have chronic inflammatory disease at an epidemic level yet. And that's not a, it's not a coincidence. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. There's.
[20:53] Valerie: There's so much, you know, because I still see it like there's sugar everywhere.
[20:56] Cate: Right.
[20:57] Valerie: So I. Any place that's gonna be serving up fast food to the masses, I think eventually it's gonna hit them one way or another. Right.
[21:06] Valerie: So we'll see.
[21:07] Valerie: We'll see. We don't know what's gonna happen yet. I want to jump back into your journey and just like you had mentioned in the beginning of this conversation that you were also transforming your company.
[21:22] Cate: Yeah.
[21:23] Valerie: As this was happening. Right. So you had some kind of realization like you're not fitting your brand anymore. And I want to ask you if you felt like if there was any connection between what was going on in your body and what was going on in your company.
[21:42] Cate: I mean, the, my, my belief is the reason I, my body developed cancer was from a. Just a large, large dose of vaccine exposure on an airplane flight, a long airplane flight from Newark with some like super vaxed up New Yorkers to Lisbon. So it was a long flight, it was a full flight. And I felt like the air was toxic like the entire time. I couldn't. It was bizarre. I was. And I'm not the kind of, I'm not a very, I mean I'm very sensitive person, but I don't kind of like live that way. Uh, and then we were in like a two hour. For two hours we were in like a customs room together and the air felt toxic in there too. And then within like 48 hours, I start bleeding. So something. And before, before then I had done a psychedelic MDMA healing, like one on one, like full day healing session which is all about heal, healing core mother wound than divine feminine. So I was like very open, very receptive, like all the way through my, you know, second chakra. My and my sex organs. Like. And the wonderful thing about psychedelics is they can very quickly shift the, the fascia and the physiology. So I was super open. And then, and then that happened. I don't feel like the cancer was that I have a theory that the reason that like with, with genetic tendencies like lynch and others and other genetic tendencies where there's this like ripening, if you look at like the ayurvedic stages of diseases, that there's this like this ripening that happens around midlife. So it's like the body is crossing a threshold, the mind is crossing threshold, the soul is crossing a threshold from like the first half into the second half. And that the body will use disease to digest ama. Like the. That the disease can actually have a digestive function. I love Andreas Moritz's books. Cancer is not a disease. It's a healing mechanism. It really speaks to. There's things that are happening when we're actually cooperating with the breakdown process, with consciousness and we stop the behaviors that are malevolent and we start the behaviors that are the healing behaviors for that phase, which often involves, you know, this is like the 40 days in the desert. Like this is like deep fasting, this is deep renewal. This is like non conventional. No more chronic inflammatory inputs and all that. So I think I was more on that threshold. And I do think that there was a parallel with my brands and the company of being like, okay, that yoga healer and the moniker yoga healer. I had that for 20 years. I still have that. I'll probably do more with it in the future again. But at the time, almost every prospect I would talk to would be like, I love your work, but I'm not a yogi or I'M not that into yoga. I'm not a yoga student or I'm not a yoga teacher. It's not how I identify. I'm like, well, that's great, because inside my clubs, it's all these people aren't. You know, there's maybe a third of the people that came in through yoga. So just things were so off. And then the way that yoga. Like, I got into yoga as a path of enlightenment, I got into Ayurveda as a path of healing. So what I was getting out of yoga was really different than a lot of other people who are looking at it more as like an exercise modality. Right. Sort of like the evolution of what happened out of aerobics, in a way, was yoga studios. If we look at like the gym culture and what classes, which placed which classes. And so when I tell people when people would ask me what I do and I'll be like, oh, I'm CEO of yogah.com people just assume it's like a yoga streaming website. I'm like, actually, like, we're hell bent, heaven bent on, you know, enlightenment on awake, living on Dharma unfulfillment on, like really living a life on purpose. Awake, you know, just awake. And that's really what it's about. There's just so much explanation for people to understand what I was doing that it just became such a pain in the neck that it was like, okay, this too probably hit that ripening phase of breakdown breakthrough, right? Destruction to rise from the ashes. Right? The Phoenix, as you well know. So, yeah, I guess there was a parallel, just to contradict what I said, but I think that the trigger of the cancer for me, and there's not much research on vaccine shedding. I had had an interview with Dr. Stephanie Senneck, who's an independent researcher associated with MIT and she's independently funded. And she was the one who, even before I had. Before I had the vaccine exposure, was the one who clued me into the research on vaccine shedding, which has mostly been removed from Google, but it'll probably emerge, you know, depending on the who's in. Who's in office. Next, there should be a shift in censorship, and a lot of that will be accessible again.
[26:36] Valerie: So I want to ask.
[26:38] Cate: Well, that's the other piece that we should just mention is censorship.
[26:42] Valerie: Okay.
[26:42] Cate: Because censorship was rampant during this time, right? So it's like I'm trying to figure out why I, like, how come I start bleeding? And I just knew it was like the vac, like the vaccine exposure to Me was really clear. But all of a sudden, research that had been available on the Internet three months months later was gone. And then the next. The follow up interview I did on that with Stephanie Sniff was censored on YouTube. And that happened like, literally at the exact same time as like, my cancer diagnosis. So it was like the craziness of like the post Covid censorship hitting the major media, independent outlets like YouTube or things that seem independent, that also just made me somewhat crazy.
[27:23] Valerie: Define crazy.
[27:25] Cate: Well, just like it. I just felt like I was living in 1984. Like, this is all just like a little bit. It's all a little too much, right? Where those of us who work in holistic medicine, alternative medicine, like, we were shut down with COVID right? We couldn't practice. Whereas, like, if you were a nurse or a doctor and you were pushing pharmaceuticals, then you could work. So there was a dividing line there that was a little bit crazy making, right? Where it's like, I have a community of wellness pros, all of which are now out of work because they're all holistic, right? And. And so there's just so many of these levels of like, this is just a bit much. It's like a bit much to have the cancer and the bleed out. It's like a bit much to have like a biopsy and hit a nerve and like now mess with my nervous system. So I basically have ticks. You know, it's like just the whole thing was the science behind what I was trying to write with uninflamed is like getting literally like removed daily from the Internet, you know, which is like our primary research mechanism at this point. So it was just. It was just crazy, you know, it's just like that whole level of, yeah, we're not interested in a culture and truth, right? I mean, and are not at a level. And I feel like there's a lot of. The other thing is I started to become like a very big fan of Elon Musk for his drive for freedom of speech, right? Because I think those of us who are impacted by censorship directly, where, like, our stuff was being removed and YouTube's threatening to shut down your channel and whatnot for. I mean, for me it was like publishing an episode with an MIT senior research scientist and it was like, where are we going? Like, this world is getting so crazy. Like, forced vaccinations are happening, you know, for people to have a job. Like, all of this is happening while research is disappearing. And I'm trying to write a book based on this research and it was just. Yeah, it was definitely like, huh, wonder where this is going to go.
[29:28] Valerie: I want to, I want to ask the question.
[29:30] Cate: Oh, sorry, one more thing. And like hate mail, right. To the past members who didn't want me to go primal, who wanted me just to be like classical Ayurveda yoga.
[29:42] Valerie: Okay.
[29:42] Cate: Yeah.
[29:43] Valerie: So that's what I want to touch upon. Right. Because I think there's. People really love their ideology. So there's. On both sides of things, whether it is like modern medicine or classical holistic medicine, there's always going to be a level of dogma on both sides. Right. And there's.
[30:04] Cate: Yeah.
[30:05] Valerie: Which is really, for me, that's like the most frustrating thing about, is trying to navigate that because I just can't. I can't just say yes and accept something just because it was said by some level of authority. But, you know, I think I've seen a lot of that on, on both sides of things, holistic medicine and modern medicine. And you know, I really appreciate your voice. Appreciate your voice because you, you seem to stand very much for yourself and for inquiry and curiosity and which I know is not easy, right. Because there are so many voices that are louder and that just. And who want to uphold the status quo of whatever is believed right now. So how do you navigate that for yourself as a thought leader? Right. And standing up for your voice and dealing with censorship and all of that, knowing that, that you're gonna always come up against people who are gonna say, no, that's not, you can't say that.
[31:06] Cate: Yeah. I mean, the, what really comes up is when I started and just like tip my hat to, to Jordan Peterson and his research on shame. So his clinical psychology research was really helpful. Uh, when I was writing on inflamed, I was taking his, his courses. He has college courses online from both Harvard and from University of Toronto. So I was taking all his psych courses and I learned a lot about the emotion of shame and how shame, shame and disgust are used for control. And so the research I was doing was basically bringing me straight into shame and disgust. So for example, like the primal habit of, of trip or abusing psychedelic substances. There's a lot of shame around that in the yoga community because in yoga you're supposed to be able to attain these altered higher states of consciousness of samadhi without the use of, just through the use of practices. And it was really actually tip my hat to Terence McKenna and his, in his ethnobotany work of saying like, no. And it was never that way. It was never that way until populations didn't have access to these substances, whether for ecological, geographic regions of desertification or for political reasons of power. And that helped me really understand that even today, I have some shame, right, that's not intellectual, because I've, like, internalized it, that it's like a, you know, it's a primal habit and all that. But, like, cultural shame and cultural disgust is so strong, whether it's around the use of cow dung to restore the microbiome, the use of urine to restore the microbiome, the use of psychedelics to restore your microbiome. And the more that I understood that the microbiome is an organ in the body and that it's roughly 30% depleted in urban dwellers at this point, less in country dwellers at this point. But that, you know, the way that we control humans is by controlling how they feel. And if they don't feel good, it's easy to control them, right? So if they don't feel empowered, it's easy to control them. And then I also had a very strong foundation in yoga philosophy. And so in the yogic text, it's very clear. It's very clear that you honor the self. That's ahimsa. So you don't do violence to the self. And then pretty soon after, in the yamas and niyamas, you hit svadhyaya, which is self study, which is the highest form of knowing. So self study, The n equals 1 is the highest form of knowing in the yogic tradition, which is very much a tradition based on being fully awake, fully empowered, and living a life of dharma of purpose. And so for me, that was a strong enough philosophical background plus my own little N equals one user journey to be like, why does. When you put, you know. And I think Megan, Megan McDonald, who was the one who was like, really the first user in Body Thrive, which became Club Thrive to introduce the urine therapy. I had interviewed Bruce Fife 20 years earlier on his work on urine therapy. So I was aware of it. I was aware of the practice from the Vedic text. I just hadn't found anyone using it. I hadn't found anyone that was a user. And so Megan was like, you just. When you pee, just put a few drops on your left hand and not on your right hand, and you notice how your skin feels after a week. So that's n equals 1. You just self study. What does your urine do to one of your hands? And what I noticed right away was this body that's just like, thirsty. Like, thirsty for that in A way that oil. I mean, as a someone who had advocated for other people to rub oil on their skin for 20 years as an ayurvedic medicine practitioner, I was like, this is nuts. And then the amount of shame I felt when I did my first full body urine massage, which I know for some listeners, like, you'll just cringe, like, you'll literally have a visceral response to me saying, full body urine massage. Like, you'll just, your body will just cringe in shame for me saying that. So there was so much to overcome. And if I hadn't listened to Jordan Peterson's lectures, and they were basically like 201, 301 type lectures at university of Toronto that were really unpacking the emotional control that we use for power over with the emotions of how we program disgust. Because disgust has a biological, it can have a biological basis. And this is what was so confusing to me is like, why are we disgusted by urine if the hand that gets the urine craves it? Like, how did we, how did we reprogram something biologically that the body craves? And that just kind of kept me up at night. So that, like, self study, like, for me, the pursuit of truth just sort of broke me through a lot of the cultural bullshit. And then listening a lot, a lot, a lot to Terrence McKenna, the late Terrence McKenna and the late Alan Watts, so that I was just like philosophically in, you know, I'm just basically listening to Jordan Peterson, Elon Musk, Terence McKenna and Alan Watts, you know, two dead guys, two alive guys, and just getting the reinforcement I needed for independent, for what feels like independent thinking so continually that being reinforced as opposed to watching the news, right? Or following the politics or following like all the noise out there. So I just like xed out the noise and tuned in.
[37:05] Valerie: Great. So we know that we need to shift the culture, right? And you often talk about the trajectory of where we're going right now, especially in terms of health and how it just is not looking good. And, you know, more and more I see it when I, when I'm out there in the world, I'm like, well, this is a huge challenge, right? Because people don't feel like they have any power over their own health. When I, when I'm like looking at my own club and like trying to get people into Club Phoenix and all of that, like, I think about, I am going to impact like X amount of people. But, like, there needs to be also this massive, I think, a massive shift in the way that society thinks so do you see an effective way to carry out that shift?
[38:04] Cate: Oh, I mean, I'm. I mean, I think if we just look at, you know, the United States versus other countries, like we've poisoned our food supply and we've poisoned our genetic code so that we clearly care more about our personal wealth than our offspring. And so if there's not a shift at that level, then I don't really have much hope for culture at large. I would imagine there's just going to be a lot of addiction. There's going to be a lot of maybe premature deaths as health span becomes increasingly short in countries that have traded greed for genetic code in their offspring. And I mean, Chief Seattle predicted that, like, this isn't a new concept. And then, I don't know. I mean, I even question things like Ozempic, right? Of, like, if there's a drug that helps a lot of people lose weight and that makes it easier for them to tune into nutrition and tune into exercise. Like, who knows? Like, I'm up for any kind of twists and turns and crazy surprises. I'm up for huge shifts that in politics that can decentralize and start to break up the, the industrial complex that's controlling food and drugs, that is controlling food and drug misinformation and controlling addiction to both. I don't even want to call it food. It's not really food that's out there anymore. I don't even know what it is. It's just genetically modified crazy stuff that causes chronic inflammation in the physiology. But the good news is, I mean, to me is that when people wake up, it does spread. So there's these tipping points that don't require big percentages of the population to become popular. And when I look at the habits of primal habits, the habits of body thrive, these habits that humans have always had that promote the preservation and continuation of the genetic code, both for the living microbiome and human DNA. They're all free and they're actually, they're hard, but only when we have chronic inflammation. And then they're easy and they make people healthier and wealthier. So the more trapped someone is in consumer culture where they're just consuming. They're consuming too much food, they're consuming too much stuff. They're in retail therapy. They're. They're just in the program of modern culture. There's, I would say, a tipping point. And I think for wellness pros to be sending signals to, like, the people that are just like, I've had enough of feeling like **** and Buying too much stuff that's bad. And, you know, just taking a moment to assess, like, what do they need to invest to hang out with people that are healthier and to actually feel great? And how much would they save? Like, how much wealth would they grow from investing smarter? To me, it's like that. That message just gets louder and clearer. I'm going to Europe on Thursday and I don't know, I think it's in 10 days or so. I'm in Scotland at the Global Wellness Summit and they've asked for you. I'll be there and Wim Hof will be there. And the activities that they're doing are primal habits. It's like forest bathing, cold plunging, you know, everyone's intermittent fasting. It's like these things are very publicly working and free and popular and accessible. Like fasting is accessible to everyone. You don't need anything to do it. Your body will self regenerate. Like, it doesn't get easier than that. You know, it's like not doing things is what's helping people.
[41:43] Valerie: What in your cause you've helped so many people. What in your memory has been like a. A turnaround case where, like, someone was just so entrenched in consumer habits and you saw like a 180. Yeah.
[41:58] Cate: You know, those deep 180s take time. They really take time in the right group of people. And so I think one of them, if I just look back, like my, you know, a woman came to me. She was. She came to one. I couldn't believe it. I was teaching at a yoga studio in Massachusetts, and she came in. She's like 100 pounds overweight. And that's unusual, especially at that time. It was unusual 20 years ago, really unusual in yoga communities and yoga studios. And she was like, she was in yoga teacher training. She already knew that she needed help and she was putting herself in the environments where she could get help. And to me, that's crucial. It's like if a person is not putting themselves in the environment where they can get help, I have no hope. Because it's. I mean, our habits are communal. So if you're not hanging out with people with healthier habits, and you usually have to pay to do that, you know, especially if you're pretty sick, because you're not bringing much to the table, quite honestly, you know, in terms of like other people wanting your habits, they don't. Right. It's like if you hang out with a lot of unfocused people and you're trying to focus those unfocused people are not helpful. If you hang out with a lot of focused people and you're trying to focus, those people are actually quite helpful. Right, because they won't engage with you when you're trying, you know, because they're focused. So she, over the course of living, when I was living Ayurveda, which is now included in Club Thrive, she lost all the weight. It was just, you know, it just took years. It took from drinking two 2 liter bottles of Coca Cola a day to harvesting the weeds in her backyard, you know, and it just, it took time and just to see the power of the incubation that happens in a club. And then I'm thinking of someone else now and I'm bringing the weight issues, I'm going to bring the weight issues. Although I've seen a lot with people having like full recovery from autoimmune issues, diagnoses as well. But the weight issues I think are hard because the weight isn't neutral. It's, it's toxic. It's. The excess fat tissue right now is full of endocrine disrupting chemicals that are pro inflammatory that cause the cravings. So it's like what's in our fat cells is causing the cravings. And often the individual thinks that if they just had willpower, right, that they could overcome that. But those, those signals are too strong in the body. Like toxic food cultures really mess people up. It's really, really hard, right, to detox that out of physiology. And yet when people do, they wake up to the purpose and they wake up to their own internal strength. So recently a member in Club Hero, she lost her job, she had a good job, but she also realized that she was in an like an emotionally abusive relationship at work with her boss, with the company. And so she realized that it was like the best gift of losing the job. And all of the prior detoxes she had done with us in clubs drive and like all of the prior strategy sessions she had done with us in Club Hero of like really working strategy into future. You had prepared her for this moment which normally would have sent her like straight to overeating, straight to the couch, sedentary lifestyle victim mindset, all that instead was like a very catapulting experience of deciding how she wanted to steer her future next and realizing that she had the open road where before she had the golden handcuffs and she was empowered and had so many choices and so much more available to her. So I think of that and I think of like if she had lost that job without doing all of that prior work with us, she would, you know, she was on the path of diabetes medication. She was already on the pre diabetes medication. So my guess is she just would have had more diabetes symptomology. It just reminds me of a client I had in yoga health coaching years ago who was a podiatrist, and her job was cutting off toes and feet and shins of severe type 2 obese diabetics. You know, so it's like, I'm pretty familiar with where that path goes. Right. And so I just think of her and just like, she had a choice. It was a hard investment for her to be in Club Thrive and then Club Hero. Right? It was like a hard investment. And then looking back, it was that, you know, and this is what I hear. I hear every day. I heard it yesterday from someone who I don't even think of as, like, a massive success story, but in her eyes, she's a massive success story. She just came with, like, a lot of menopausal midlife crises, running a company, kind of out of control of her time, not living a life of intentionality. And now her habits are 100% primal. She wants to lead other women, like, out of conventional into primal. She's thriving. She looks at me and she's like, I heard you on a podcast episode. I joined your club. I don't even know who I'd be without this. Like, I don't know who I was, and I know who I am now, and I'm on target and just loving my life. So that keeps me going for sure. Yeah.
[47:04] Valerie: You know, we all want people to, of course, be free of inflammation and disease and all of that. But at the end of the day, I think it is really important to see, like, it's the freedom and the agency that people gain from the work that I think makes the biggest difference, because then they just get to choose.
[47:25] Cate: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It goes back to n equals 1. It goes back to like your SVA, yourself and Svastha, which is the definition of health and Ayurveda beta. Right. Seated in the self. That who you are as self, like who you are as a unique individual, that that matters and that's connected to your dharma, right? That's your purpose. Like, you're here, you're unique, and like, how you get to play that out right now is so super limited because of conventional habits. So as you shake those conventional habits for primal habits, like, you just simply wake up to who you are. You shift out a consumer into citizen. You shift out a consumer into creator, and then it's like, the world's your oyster.
[48:06] Valerie: Fantastic. All right, so I'm going to conclude with this last question, and then we'll go about our day. So, Cate, what do you see as your next major shift?
[48:20] Cate: What do I see as my next major shift? It's. I mean, a lot of these things. I think for a lot of us, it's like when a goal is, like, a long time coming, when you're just like. And I just want to speak to the people who do have cancer and are just like, oh, my gosh, when is it going to be behind me? You know, it's like, sometimes we're in a very long phase. Those of you who follow, like, astrology, you might be like, this phase lasts seven years or 10 years, or just seems forever. Well, I've been in a phase of trying to construct a team around me that can be right at my level and really keep up, because I'm a. I'm a massive creator, and I've never put together the team that can really do that, although I have put together teams that have grown, you know, multimillion dollar business, like, it's never been fully aligned. And that, for me is, like, it's been a goal for a long time. It still is the goal. I'm getting a lot closer. And what's so remarkable to me about it is it's like I was looking at my numbers this morning, like, I've cut my overhead by 75%. It's crazy to be able to have that with the right people and to start to get. And to start to get traction. So what that requires from me, it seems, is remarkable diligence, patience, and help. Just in. In the actual creation of the team and the hiring, it's just been. Yeah, it's been absolutely brutal. I was listening to another entrepreneur today who's also in the school space. S K O O L, the app that we use for our clubs. And she's brilliant. And she's. I mean, she has like a. I think she's maybe around a million a year, maybe a little bit more in. In revenue. And she's like, I tried the team thing. I tried it a few times. It just doesn't work for me. I'm a solopreneur and I've heard this a lot. I've heard this a lot, a lot, a lot. And it's like, it's an entirely different skillset. Right. But it goes back to that question that you asked earlier, which is like, how am I going to have more like, how do we put a dent, right? How do we put a dent in like just the insanity that so many people are experiencing every single day, you know, because of just the way that our past leaders have controlled the industry and the reality that most people are addicted to stuff that makes them feel horrible and broke. And it's like for me, if I don't have a team, then I'm not living my dharma like that is my edge. It's so hard for me. I'd. So I'd be so much happier in a very, very scaled down, simplified company of one with a few, you know, part time contractors doing little things here and there. But to me, like, this is my Everest is like a small, effective team that we can just do all the things that I've wanted to do.
[51:14] Valerie: Fantastic. Well, I hope that you find your team and I know that you can, and I just love working with you. So thank you so much, Cate, for being on here today with me. It's been a really enlightening conversation and I know people are going to have lots of questions and you've piqued a lot of interest in so many different things for me, so thank you so much.
[51:36] Cate: Well, let's talk about Club Phoenix for a minute. Yeah. Yeah.
[51:41] Valerie: All right.
[51:42] Cate: You're up to and why it was really, really important.
[51:45] Valerie: Okay. So I've been working with Cate on building this Club Phoenix for the past year. And it is a collective in which I am bringing my mission to the world. And my personal belief is that people have a unique potential and that we all have the power within ourselves to reach that potential by optimizing our health and by optimizing our, our mindset. So if you have interest in really shifting your life dramatically and bringing your best self into the world, then please hit me up and let's talk and let's make your dreams come true.
[52:30] Cate: Yeah.
[52:31] Valerie: Yeah.
[52:31] Cate: It's so important. It's. And then you and I have talked about, about like people struggling with mental health and millennials and how like a lot of the videos I've been, I've enjoyed sharing with you around how. And actually it came up at the dinner table the other night. It's like it's so much harder for millennials than previous generations. You know, if we go back to 1950s, we don't have to go back before then, but just in terms of like the, just the financial hardship that you're up against, plus the insanely addictive like food and consumer culture being like, just shoved down our throats. At every turn. Plus media being so addictive right now that we can like waste not just our money, but we can waste our attention and how toxic that is. And so to me, I see just what you're, what you're doing with Club Phoenix as like a way. It's like insurance for people to their future self.
[53:27] Valerie: It is, it is so much. And you know, I think my generation is. They've always been on the edge of, of waking up.
[53:37] Cate: I think that, yeah, totally.
[53:40] Valerie: We grew up with a pretty rosy childhood, a lot of us, right. And then I think with the, with 9, 11 and everything, like a lot of the consciousness started shifting then. And also the world started expanding then. And then the technology, right. And then everything and then economy and all of it. And it, it's been rapid shift after rapid shift and we went from rosy childhood to just like challenge after challenge after challenge and to a point where, you know, a lot of people that have like so called financial success or you know, the illusion of stability even, they feel trapped too by the lives that they've created because we've done everything that we're told. We were a very like good girl, good guy generation, I feel. And in terms of the patterns that I've seen because we were somewhat promised this American dream, right? Especially because I'm in a child of immigrants and a lot of my friends are children of immigrants. This was the promise that we were raised upon. So to have that be so challenged and for it to be such a stark reality from the one that we were taught we were going to have. There's just so much that we're questioning about everything. And I think it is time for us to really take the reins because if we don't, we're not going to be empowered ever.
[55:15] Cate: Right, Right, right. And we're seeing it with, you know, the fall of home ownership, the fall of childbearing, right. Where it's like these just markers of independence and adulthood and moving into the next phase of life are so. It's just so much, I'd say not encouraged by culture and harder to. And just financially way harder, harder to do. So to me, it's like so important for people to invest in a club that can help them actualize their goals. Like it just, it's just so critical. So I'm really stoked for you and your current and future members.
[55:57] Valerie: Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Cate. It was great talking to you. Thanks for also bringing the platform for Club Phoenix and looking forward to talking.
[56:07] Cate: A little bit more about all of that. Yes, yes. Yay. Talk to Valerie, everyone. Join Club Phoenix. Awesome.
[56:14] Valerie: Thank you.
[56:22] Valerie: Hey there. If you've been tuning in and finding value in our discussions about resilience and personal growth, I think you'll really appreciate what we're building at Club Phoenix. Club Phoenix is more than just a community. It's a movement towards holistic wellness and vibrant living. Whether you're battling burnout or just seeking a deeper connection with your mental and physical health, Club Phoenix offers tools, resources, and a supportive community to help you rise above and thrive. Dive deeper into your journey of transformation by visiting us at IntrepidWellness Life Club Phoenix, discover how you can join our community and start shaping a life filled with vitality and purpose. That's Intrepid Wellness dot Life slash Club Phoenix. Can't wait to see you there. Rising together.
