[00:00] Valerie: Rise, renew, reconnect. Welcome to from the Ashes, a podcast where every episode ignites hope and healing. In today's episode, my guests, Basanth Muralikrishnan, and I dive into a variety of topics spanning from neurodivergence and mental health to evolving identities as an artist. Basanth is a highly accomplished, world class saxophonist hailing from a family of musicians. I haven't known Basanth for very long, but what struck me about our conversation was Basant's warm and humble nature and his willingness to not only share his story vulnerably, but to listen earnestly to mine as well. Please enjoy this heartwarming exchange with Basanth Muralikrishnan.
[00:53] Valerie: All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. I am your host, Valerie Beckley, and I would like to introduce today's honored guest. Joining us all the way from Chennai, India, Basant Murali Krishnan is a saxophonist that hails from a family of musicians. His style of playing incorporates Carnatic, which is Indian classical, western classical, and jazz. He's a really prolific player who's played at Carnegie Hall, Sydney Opera House, Walt Disney concert Hall, the 2012 Olympic Games, and other venues. And he's toured with notable artists such as Benny Dial, Sean Roldan, and Steven Devasi. But most importantly, Basanth is a super sweet individual, and I am really glad for him to be on the show with me today. So welcome, Basanth.
[01:44] Basanth: Thank you so much for having me. It's really, really a pleasure, you know, to be here and just share, share what I have, share what life has been like.
[01:53] Valerie: Yeah. Everybody's story is so different and it's just cool. First of all, to get someone from all the way across the world. You are literally halfway across the globe right now, but with such a colorful background and different experience. So, that being said, the first question is more of a personal, curious question. That is, not many people really get drawn to my work, especially when they don't know me. When people do notice what I'm doing, they're usually drawn in for a reason. So my question for you is, what compelled you to connect with me in the first place?
[02:30] Basanth: I'm always curious when I see, because I had a phase of my life where I was very spiritually inclined and I was actually gravitating towards Sannyasin, which is kind of, I suppose, a form of renunciation and detachment and I really like it when I see people like you that are, you know, propagating that type of, you know, spiritual connectivity, but not in a, you know, the way that tends to be propagated out in the west. And I see your format of it, and it seems very much about, like, actual wellness and actual, like, connectivity with yourself. And I really. I really liked that. And that's kind of what kind compelled me to reach out and say, hi. Yay.
[03:14] Valerie: Well, that is really beautiful. We can dig into that just a little bit because it's something that I put a lot of effort into doing, and is that the spiritual journey is such an individual journey because it's like every single soul has to find its own way there. And I really appreciate what you said about just looking at it not being an external experience, which is sometimes what I feel is propagated in the west. Can you explain a little bit more about what you meant by that?
[03:56] Basanth: Yeah. So I do feel like when you take a lot of these yogis that are any type of these types of spiritual people that are a lot more prominent out there, it seems very like you follow this textbook guide, and through my seven step, eight step, whatever the heck program, you achieve enlightenment. And I really like that your approach to it was very much about, like, let's figure out what's going on with you. Let's figure out how you are perceiving the world around you and the universe, and let's kind of create something that's a little bit more self tailored, you know? I really liked that.
[04:35] Valerie: Yeah. I also was once considering withdrawing from the world. There was a time in my life where it got really dark, and I was looking at all of these teachings. I was doing Vipassana meditation and doing some yoga and was like, hmm, do.
[04:53] Basanth: You mind going into, like, what that journey was like for you?
[04:57] Valerie: Yes, let's go into it a little bit, and then we'll go into your from the ashes story. But it was looking at how I was experiencing a lot of turbulence around relationships, and I was starting to notice how people walk around wounded, and without even realizing it, they're wounding each other. And when I was doing meditation and I was doing yoga, the texts talk about this, and they talk about it in very plain language. There are parts of the yoga sutras that talk about nonviolence, ahimsa and all of that. It's very widely discussed in the yoga realm, but I wonder if people really go through the work of internalizing what that actually means. It can get a much more deep and when I looked at my life and I was looking at just all of my relationships, I was like, I can't control anyone else but me.
[06:08] Basanth: Right.
[06:09] Valerie: And what can I do to create that environment where I can not only exercise nonviolence, but also not be subject to other people's violence? And I think there was part of me that was like, that did want to escape. And so there is that. It's like you want to get farther into the spiritual journey for yourself because you see that you are also the source of your problems, but you could also see the rest of the world isn't helping. And so it was a fleeting thought, and ultimately, I very much decided that was not my path and that I really. I wanted to live life like I want to. I want to go out there and make the mistakes and, like, feel the love, feel the anguish, feel everything, rather than try to shelter myself from everything.
[07:06] Basanth: Right.
[07:06] Valerie: Because if you shelter yourself from anguish and, sorry, you're also sheltering yourself from joy.
[07:10] Basanth: Right. Yeah. I think a lot of people that, like, you know, they get into that space where they consider renunciation as an option more often than not, at least from the people in the, you know, the circles that I've associated with, it seems that there's a lot of it that's just, like, kind of escapist in nature. And then even myself included, when I. When I was in that phase of my life, I did. I had to catch myself and recognize that, hey, a lot of these thoughts. Are you trying to run away from what you've got going on rather than accept and integrate these things as part of your life? So, yeah, I really do resonate with what you just said right now because, you know. Yeah. And I do feel like if that is the path that is meant for an individual, that it presents itself in a lot more of a peaceful format, you know? Yeah.
[07:59] Valerie: And without going into too much detail in the ayurveda stuff, I think ayurveda also teaches us that that is true, that once you have done all the work, once you have done all this, then you can withdraw into a state of reflection and all of that. But the work needs to be done before that happens for sure. Okay. So with all of that said, I would like you to share from the ashes story. I want you to think about a pivotal moment in your life where you really had to dig deep and question what, you know, who you are and what you believe.
[08:35] Basanth: All right. So I think a lot, if I. If I have to contextualize it like that, that a lot of I would say my rising from the ashes story is still ongoing, and it is more centered around acceptance of, you know, my mental state as a neurodivergent individual. I think growing up, there was a lot of lack of context in that area of my life, and that ended up manifesting in the form of a lot of, you know, difficulties that I did not understand why they were occurring to me. I guess that's. That's the most watered down way of saying it. And then as I grew older, I felt a lot of these themes kind of taking place over and over and over again. And I thought, oh, maybe I'm the problem. Maybe it's something wrong with me. Maybe I'm just, you know, and I think as I. As I tried really hard to convince myself that, no, this is just something that I can push through very brute force, it started becoming more and more apparent that it's just not going to work that way, that there has to be very specific systems in place for you to navigate through certain landscapes that a lot of neurotypical individuals may not have so much difficulty with, for example, like executive functioning, time management, and all of these types of things that are very critical to navigating through today's landscape. So I would say that my pivotal journey, actually, it's a bit of a departure from music, and it goes into brawl stars, which is like a video game. And I had gotten a little bit into the competitive space of that game, and I started creating an infrastructure for a community and for an esports team. And what I found myself, what I found happening through that journey was that I was trying so hard to convince myself that I could do something that, you know, that. That I could do something that, you know, nor quote unquote, normal people could do that. I was just burning out. Like, it became really unsustainable. Like, I had a surgery that I had to do on my. On my rotator cuff. And literally, the day after surgery, I'm coaching a team for, like, a. For a competitive match. And I really, you know, that didn't make too much sense for me to do. Like, it. It was really just a matter of, like, I should be able to do it, so I'm doing it. And I think once I kind of sat and really reflected upon myself of, like, bossy. No, wait a second. Like, none of these things that you're doing are inherently sustainable. I think you need to go back to the basics. I think you need to revisit the foundation of how a lot of your life has gone. And I think you need to practice that layer of kindness to yourself. I think that's when things started making a lot more sense, and that's when I kind of found my place in terms of, like, how to navigate through life without taking it so personally, you know?
[11:50] Valerie: Yeah.
[11:51] Basanth: Yeah.
[11:52] Valerie: So a few clarifying questions for the audience, especially because the term neurodivergent is relatively new. Even back when I was in college studying psychology, psychological services, that term was never used. So can you clear that up for us about what that means and what. How that occurs for you?
[12:11] Basanth: So I am an ADHD autistic individual, and the way that it manifests in my light is that on one side of. I'm going to oversimplify this, because if I really talk about the specifics, we're going to end up showing up to, like, 45 minutes of our time.
[12:29] Valerie: Okay?
[12:29] Basanth: So on the. On one side of things, there's a part of my brain that really craves spontaneity, and on the other side, there's a part of my brain that really craves structure. And finding the equilibrium between these two states has more or less been the narrative of my life.
[12:49] Valerie: Okay.
[12:49] Basanth: If I have to, like, make it very personal and very about myself, you know. Right. And I think it was kind of a lot of people, when they think of these things, there's a lot of stigma associated with it, and it becomes, you know, I'll be perfectly honest with you, a lot of people don't like to talk about these things because of these perceived notions and stigmas. So I think there in and of itself, was one layer of acceptance. It's just like, hey, I'm ready to talk about these things. I'm ready to, you know, accept this as part of my reality, you know?
[13:21] Valerie: Yeah, I.
[13:22] Basanth: That was one defining part of that journey for me, which is still ongoing. Yeah.
[13:28] Valerie: As we go along, because sometimes I get really nerdy and I start to think about ayurveda as we're talking. If you don't mind, I'll kind of sprinkle some of that in, especially since you kind of know a little bit of the lingo from what you said before. Right. The need for structure and the need for spontaneity. In Doshic terms, there’s the vata energy, right? The mobile, frenetic, spontaneous, often enthusiastic energy. And then the structure often is associated with pitta and kapha in different ways. And life is always a balance. And sometimes, though, when the doshas are kind of on opposing ends, that balance can be fought out as a battle because you have vata going much higher than it should be on one end, and then sometimes the other dosha will try to ground. Right. So my question for you is that need to be spontaneous and the need to be structured, is it a matter of being able to feel kind of stable in oneself, that you are trying to balance? What is the need for spontaneity? What does that provide for you?
[14:57] Basanth: That's a great question. I think for me, if I do not, again, I'm going to use very loose language here. If I don't indulge that aspect enough, I start to hit this point where I. I start traveling towards burnout, essentially, right?
[15:15] Valerie: Oh, okay.
[15:16] Basanth: Yeah. That's the simplified answer.
[15:20] Valerie: This kind of leads me to my next question, because I was going to ask you about your experience with burnout, and we've been talking a lot about authenticity on this podcast.
[15:31] Basanth: Wonderful.
[15:32] Valerie: When, you know, we don't often talk in very scientific terms. This is more based on your personal experience. When we stray too far from authentic self, it kind of grinds down at our soul, and that dissipates our energy. This is something we've talked about with different guests and stuff. And when I hear you say, like, I need to be spontaneous, otherwise I will drive myself towards burnout, how much of it is that you, without being able to be spontaneous and do these things, you're straying from kind of your. Your natural self expression?
[16:11] Basanth: So let's just. I want to answer this question kind of like the context of music. So, as a musician, I would kind of consider, like, if I really have to consider myself, I would consider myself an improvising artist. Right. And I think that that spontaneity in and of itself, always presents itself when I'm performing on stage. And it's really. It's. It's interesting because, like, I've always. Despite having been a musician from such a young age, I've never really identified as a musician. But then, as I got older, and then I recognized that it's something that had inherently been a part of myself for so long, it became such a wonderful tool for helping me understand myself.
[16:53] Valerie: Okay.
[16:54] Basanth: You know? And so I would say, like, the way that I go about performing, like, in terms of, like, I like this layer of structure here, but I also like this layer of spontaneity here. Kind of feels like how I've started approaching my life. So, yeah, I would very much say that, you know, being able to integrate that spontaneity of life is very much essential for me to feel that sense of, I am living truly and authentically, because, you know, if I want to have a day where I just want to go out and about and be in nature and quote unquote, touch grass, I want to have the luxury to do that. And I've kind of structured my life in such a way that I have the flexibility to do that.
[17:38] Valerie: Okay, so there are a few things I want to ask. What do you feel in the past has kept you from being able to do both, being spontaneous and having structure?
[17:51] Basanth: I would very much just say a lack of good systems in my life. Yeah, I think just having those types of self imposed institutions, because, again, I would always gravitate towards one extreme. And when that ends up happening, if you're too spontaneous, then life just kind of feels like it's happening, and you're just living the consequence of happenstance. And when life feels too. I'm sorry, that's too spontaneous. And when it's too structured, it just feels like you're a robot. And I feel like that type of sense that it kind of feels like if I have to, like, what a lot of people are going through these days is just like, you don't really have the option to, you know, just feel connected with that layer of your. That spontaneity that inherently exists within you, you know?
[18:37] Valerie: Yeah.
[18:37] Basanth: So, yeah, it really does. You know, on the. These extremes are very. For any person, not just myself.
[18:47] Valerie: Yeah, it's very relatable. I kind of have to wonder, because we're both artists, and so there is this understanding of what it feels like to be creatively free and self expressed, that some people, if they've never been given a chance to. To develop that side of them, may not even know.
[19:11] Basanth: Right.
[19:13] Valerie: So it's really interesting. I kind of wonder if someone hasn't had the experience of being able to develop that muscle, what that would feel like. Because it does feel, if I don't go out and do my dancing.
[19:31] Basanth: Right.
[19:31] Valerie: So I teach dance, and I. I do a lot of freestyle, too. This is my main modality. I prefer to do freestyle as opposed to choreography. If I don't get out and do it sometimes, whether that be in the form of dance or martial arts or whatnot, I will feel it in my mood, and I will feel it in my ability to emotionally regulate. I have to do something with my body regularly in order for me to feel like myself.
[20:01] Basanth: Right.
[20:02] Valerie: Yeah. Has there been a time where that was not available to you?
[20:08] Basanth: Um, I don't think so. Because I think so. Music was something because both my parents are also Indian classical musicians. So music was something that was always present for me in my life, whether or not I wanted it to. So I guess I could say that the inverse was true, in which there were a lot of instances in my life in which I wanted to not be so artistically inclined and. And, you know, I didn't have the option to, you know.
[20:36] Valerie: Okay, all right.
[20:39] Basanth: Yeah, I think that's a bit of an anomaly of a perspective, but, yeah, well, I wonder.
[20:45] Valerie: So I will tell a little bit about my experience, because there was a point in my life where I burnt out on dance.
[20:52] Basanth: Oh.
[20:53] Valerie: And I was like, I'm done with this. I'm not going to do it anymore. And I did stop for several years, and it was because it had become. It had become external in terms of the reasons that I was doing it.
[21:10] Basanth: Oh, okay. You mean like that? Okay.
[21:14] Valerie: And also I was finding that I was neglecting a part of myself by over involving myself in dance. I had neglected other parts of my life that needed attention.
[21:29] Basanth: Right, yeah.
[21:32] Valerie: Is that something you could relate with?
[21:33] Basanth: Yes, I think that that kind of homes in a little bit more. I think. I think this goes back to our conversation about, like, you know, when we were talking about renunciation in the beginning, because for me, I was kind of going in the spiritual journey of, like, nada yoga, which is, like, using, like, sound as, like, your medium of whatever. And that became when my relationship with music, it's when I first self identified with it, but it's also when it became very obsessive.
[22:03] Valerie: Okay.
[22:04] Basanth: You know, and I was very convinced on, you know, this belief that every permutation and combination of any sound or any had already existed in nature long before humans had had anything to do with, you know, music or sound, anything like that. So I kind of. I was on that trip of life, and I became very self obsessed with, oh, I want to discover every permutation and combination. The music, it is very. Yeah. So I do understand in that sense, you know, when my art became very self obsessed, and then that led to a degree of just, like, I think it was in that phase where I started, like, integrating into the industry. Like, I started, like, becoming a little bit more well known, and people started calling me for things. And I was still very much in this space of life where I was just like, I don't want to do music as a commercial, anything. I just want to do it as a divine sort of something. And, yeah, it does have its repercussions, for sure. And just in terms of, like, how you feel about the art.
[23:12] Valerie: Yeah, yeah, totally. I was so. I was so. I remember being so angry because I just felt like I couldn't. I couldn't integrate the way that I was expressing myself in the way that I wanted to practice my art with the way that other people were. And I was angry, too, because I felt like people were exploiting their self expression and.
[23:40] Basanth: What do you mean by that?
[23:42] Valerie: So it's funny because a lot of people who were professional dancers around me, they would look at me and be like, oh, you really love dance. And it would be like, of course I do. I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't love it.
[23:57] Basanth: Right.
[23:59] Valerie: But it was kind of clear to me that for some people, this was more of a means to an end.
[24:04] Basanth: Right.
[24:05] Valerie: And, you know, ultimately that did. I left. I'm not. I'm not really it by any standard. Like, I'm not involved in professional dancing at all, with the exception of occasionally teaching. And, yeah, I don't know if that is. Is relevant to what we're talking about, but I just. That has kind of been my, like, it just. My whole burnout story kind of starts there, so I remember, or part of my burnout. Sorry, has a lot to do with that era of my life, and. Yeah. And it was just, like, reckoning with. With all of the emotions and thoughts that came with that and. And what to do, because I kind of have to recreate myself after that.
[24:46] Basanth: So how would you say that? Like, how does dance place itself in your life now? More. Less in terms of just, like, scheduling and more just, like, in terms of how you, like, your overall balance of life, I guess.
[24:59] Valerie: You know what? It's been so cool, because in 2016, I decided I'm quitting dance. And I actually, not only did I do that, I took myself from Los Angeles and I moved to New Zealand with no plan, and I ended up doing a few dance performances and teaching gigs out there before I finally was like, no, this doesn't feel good anymore. We're not doing this. So I stopped and I got into some. Some sports, like parkour and acrobatics and stuff that, like, weren't on the artistic side of movement. They just were very, you know, they're more athletic to still exercise that part of my brain. But I just left it for a while, and I resisted coming back because I think part of me knew I needed the space to figure out how I'm going to be the dancer that I've always wanted to be.
[26:04] Basanth: Oh, that's wonderful. Okay.
[26:05] Valerie: Right? Because the dancers that I always have wanted to be doesn't care, honestly, about the. The form.
[26:14] Basanth: Uh huh.
[26:16] Valerie: I don't care about the names of all of the different types of dances, the techniques, even the history. Like, that's great. These are all things that I respect and I have drawn knowledge from and all of that. But the end of the day, I want to represent and honor myself.
[26:35] Basanth: Oh, that's so beautiful. I love that.
[26:38] Valerie: Yeah.
[26:40] Basanth: And I like that you brought up all these, like, classifications in terms in the format of art. Right. Because having grown up as an Indian classical musician, there's a lot of it that is, you know, very much. You know, things are classified as this. These things have this inherent structure. You cannot deviate from these things. And that in and of itself, just. It feels so. It's like the idea is supposed to be creativity within, you know, a ridiculous amount of structure. But sometimes that's just so overwhelming. Sometimes you want to take aspects of that, you know, without being so married to, you know, the bawding institutions and you just want to make some nice art.
[27:23] Valerie: Yeah.
[27:26] Basanth: Sometimes it's just as simple as that.
[27:28] Valerie: Yeah, sometimes it's just like you want to spray a rainbow here, whatever, and, like, put some glitter over here and not have to worry about. Well, like, you know, did my master say that I could put the glitter there? But I think that people get really hung up in preserving tradition and culture, and there is value to that. But there's also fear in that we all came from nothing. All cultures, all traditions came from nothing and were created as living beings. And so I think tradition and culture, if we allow it to evolve with the times, evolve with the environment, and with the people who are contemporary, then we will continue to evolve as a species. We'll continue to evolve as artists.
[28:23] Basanth: I couldn't have said it any better myself. Beautiful.
[28:27] Valerie: I like way this conversation said, and that wasn't exactly what I was planning on talking about, but I think it's important. And it's such a good opportunity, too, because we are both artists from different worlds, but we've come to a place where it really is. Rather than being a representation of a fossilized form, artists are living.
[28:52] Basanth: Right.
[28:53] Valerie: And a human is living, growing, evolving throughout their life. Yeah.
[29:00] Basanth: And that's something that happens here with a lot of these classical art forms, is that people get so rigid about the presentation and the preservation of this art that when you. When you. When you try to breathe, you know, a new breath of life into something, people get. They're very adamant. They're very resistant, just like, no, this is not how we do things. And, you know, especially in a class, very rigid, classical art form. So it's really nice. I just. I really like that, you know, it takes something like this, and you can accept that, you know, art has always gone through the same life cycles as tradition has, you know, in terms of, you know, evolving and in terms of, you know, there's always been someone that's added some. Something to the system that then becomes an inherent part of the system as that system evolves, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[29:57] Valerie: Food for thought, everyone. Okay, so my next question also has something to do with art and being. And you are a world class artist. You've really traveled around, and you've played at these big venues, and yet you have also struggled through the mental health challenges, and you talk about executive functioning and all of that. So what helps you keep going now as a world class artist? What are those systems of support that you've put in place for yourself?
[30:33] Basanth: So a lot of these are very simple things because, like, for example, when I'm traveling a lot, sometimes it just. It becomes really difficult to, like, find that sense of, like, oh, I'm rooted, I'm grounded. I have a routine because it just feels like, go, go, go, something or the other is happening, and you're just. It just feels so out of your control that eventually that you just kind of resign to that force. And I think for me, it's always, the big part of it is just like, okay, when you come back home, these are the things that need to be done no matter what. It's a very basic things that most people would not put too much thought into. But just due to the nature of my work and to the nature of my mental space, it becomes things that I have to very actively prioritize, you know, and even something as simple as, like, you know, waking up in the morning and fixing your bed. That in itself was one very. That took me, like, two years to, like, really nail down two years of, like, active, continuous thought for me to, for it to become a routine.
[31:47] Valerie: You know, this is. You're not the first person to tell me a story like that. So, you know, as, as someone who has practiced ayurveda for a few years now and have seen clients and all of that, this is a huge part regulating, of self regulating. I've had a lot of people come to me who tell me, like, it takes all the energy in the world for them to get ready for bed, or it takes them all of their will to brush their teeth.
[32:17] Basanth: Right.
[32:18] Valerie: I don't think it's so hard for the rest of the world to empathize with this. And I think we need to be aware that this is a thing because so many more people are affected by that. And the nature of society today is to very much value productivity and efficiency and. Yeah. And it's like you're just expected to be on your a game all of a time. People don't realize that when it. When you're burnt out and you're. The burnout takes years, sometimes like a decade, you know, or more, to fall into a place where you start to really notice it. It takes. It's going to take time. Not like one doctor visit, not two doctor visits. Not, not, not like, you know, just ten therapy sessions, et cetera, to get back to a place where you feel supported and energetic. And it takes those little routines to really get back to a place of functioning.
[33:32] Basanth: Yeah, that one hit home.
[33:37] Valerie: And I always try to tell people, like, really be patient with yourself and be forgiving to yourself. And, you know, just because, like, you can't get out of bed today doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you.
[33:55] Basanth: Right. So I actually have a tattoo on my arm which serves as my reminder to practice a lot of these things. It's number one as a reminder to, you know, be really kind and forgiving to yourself, but at the same time to not be complacent. So it's just three question marks. There's no, like, the symbolism behind it is very highly contextual. So I'm not going to go into all of that. But every time I look at this, everything that you said rings true in my head, you know? Yeah. I just felt like sharing that with you.
[34:26] Valerie: I love that. Three question marks. So it's really interesting because I've heard several thought leaders use this. And a while back, I was having a rough time in life, and I was reading conversations with God by Neil Donald Walsh. Have you heard of that book?
[34:46] Basanth: I have not. I'm looking it up right now.
[34:48] Valerie: Okay. I highly recommend it. I read through pretty much the entire series, and it was like, reading through it was very meditative, and it kind of put me into this space where it's almost like my consciousness was able to open up. And I remember specifically the moment where it's like three questions. If I always could answer or had these three questions in the back of my mind, I will be okay. And, you know what's kind of sad is I have no idea what those three questions are now. They may be in a journal somewhere, but. Or maybe they're just lost in the consciousness again, and I will have to resummon them at some point.
[35:39] Basanth: I was about to be. Valerie, give me the secret to life, please.
[35:46] Valerie: But apparently I'm not the only one, because after that, there were quite a few people that I read about who have the same. Have three questions. Each set of their questions were different, though.
[35:58] Basanth: Right, right. Again, because this is a very individualistic journey, so.
[36:03] Valerie: Right, right. And yet there's this three questions theme. So I just think it's so fascinating that you have those three question marks on your arm.
[36:13] Basanth: Yeah, that's an interesting bit of coincidence. I like that. It attributes new meaning to this tattoo. Thank you.
[36:22] Valerie: Maybe those three questions will come to you someday, too.
[36:25] Basanth: Hopefully. I love this.
[36:30] Valerie: All right, so we have touched upon this before in a different conversation, but we've also talked about being brought up because you were born in the US, right?
[36:39] Basanth: Correct.
[36:39] Valerie: And we were both brought up in immigrant households.
[36:43] Basanth: Correct.
[36:44] Valerie: So how would you contribute, or how would you say that being brought up in an immigrant household has shaped who you are?
[36:55] Basanth: I am. I would say I'm very much the product of having grown up in an immigrant household. I am very much the product of it. So, for context, my parents got married in the eighties. My father is a. He is a Brahmin, and my mother is a Catholic. So they made the decision to move to the United States for us to be a little distant from a lot of the social stigma that would have otherwise been associated with their union.
[37:27] Valerie: Wow.
[37:28] Basanth: And so I think on one side of things, yeah, they were kind of. We kind of grew up, and they were figuring things out as we were figuring things out. So that's. There's that layer of things, but then on the other side of things, there's also just, like, you know, that. That layer of protection that our parents gave, they're just like, we don't want our children to go through, but we had to experience in our life. And honestly, that even comes in the form of, like, music, having navigate through this career and this industry. You know, they. My mom wanted my sister to be a doctor, and she wanted me to be an engineer, not for any societal reason, but just because of their perceived threats of what this industry can be like, you know? And so, yeah, for sure. Like, the way that both my sister and I had grown up is very much like, we have parents that, you know, we're going through their own thing, and they're just trying to build something new in a different country. And have their beautiful little slice of life, you know? Yeah, yeah, no, you're good. You're good. What was your experience like?
[38:34] Valerie: Yeah, my parents came after they got married, and I don't know exactly why. Well, my dad had gone to engineering school at MIT and he had gotten his doctorate here. And perhaps it was just because the opportunities were better. So they ended up coming in the eighties and settling in Long island. And my mother ended up getting her masters in the computer science, and they worked as computer programmer and engineer. They are kind of poster children, very high achieving people. They both went to the top school in Taiwan. And so having a high standard of performance was not a question. It was an expectation that was not even verbally upset.
[39:39] Basanth: Right.
[39:39] Valerie: I think I internalized before I even had language because it's funny because I think my parents really did want me to find out my own path. In a way, they actually weren't that pushy. And that's rare for immigrant parents. And there was some real high faith in the american education system and society. So I can't say that my experience was typical. It was. And, you know, the more I talk to different people, it's like everyone has different experiences, right? And it's a mixture of circumstances. It could be like your race, your immigrant status. It could be like what city you grew up in and all that. So it's all a mixed.
[40:26] Basanth: And.
[40:26] Valerie: But I think because of the combination of my upbringing and the circumstances of United States growing up, I was in 9th grade when the twin Towers were hit, and I was in New York. I was living on the island. So I think those combined experiences, it was like I had a very innocent and very rosy childhood because my parents put so much work into making sure that we had that and so much faith that, like, you know, that hard work would carry through to me and my sister. And to an extent, I think it would have, except that there was a little bit of the shattering of that, of that glass because just of history of where we were and what was happening.
[41:22] Basanth: Right.
[41:23] Valerie: Yeah.
[41:26] Basanth: I was going to ask you, like, this is a question I like to ask a lot of children of immigrants, is, do you feel like, are you the older or younger sibling by chance?
[41:35] Valerie: Older.
[41:36] Basanth: Would you say that there was a difference in how your parents approached you versus your sister?
[41:43] Valerie: I don't think so. Are you older or younger?
[41:47] Basanth: I asked this question because there, there was a very big difference with how my parents approached my sister versus how they approached me, because I think, like, when they, when they had her, she was my mom was still in India, and my dad had come to the US for his masters. And so, like, the. The circumstances around her life were a lot more turbulent in her initial years of her life as opposed to mine. By the time I was in the equation, my parents, you know, they'd already moved to the suburbs. They had all their things in place, and things were a lot more peaceful. So then the way that I kind of was raised, you know, I had a lot. Little bit more luxury in terms of just, like. Just like, the basics, right?
[42:30] Valerie: Yeah.
[42:31] Basanth: And, yeah. So. And then you don't ever really realize that, but then sometimes it translates into, like, expectations. Like, the elder sibling has a lot more, you know, the responsibilities placed upon themselves, and the younger ones just kind of like, yeah, let's go. I was just wondering if there's anything like that in your household, because, you know, I have seen a lot of, you know, a lot of brown people, a lot of Asian people that have gone through circumstances like that. So I'm just wondering if.
[42:55] Valerie: Okay, all right, so let's. Let's discover then. So how many years apart?
[43:01] Basanth: Oh, we're five years apart.
[43:03] Valerie: Okay, so I'm two and a half years apart. You would not know from the way that we were when we were little that things would turn out this way because my sister was extremely artistic, very gifted. She actually went to art school for the first year of college. More of the rebel when she was a teenager. And then all of a sudden, she's like, no, I'm getting out of art school, and I'm going to go and study biology and become a nurse.
[43:33] Basanth: Oh, wow.
[43:34] Valerie: And I did the opposite thing. I was straight laced, just, like, all about performing well in school and doing all the things right. And then this was actually my early twenties, though. It was when I pivoted and I was like, everything is. Everything is messed up, and the world is crazy, and I am not going to follow its rules. And I rebelled, and that's when I really leaned into my artist side.
[44:06] Basanth: That's beautiful.
[44:08] Valerie: So I have no idea if that is typical or not. Yeah. Because the way that we are raised, I think, you know, they're like. I think my parents were just surprised, and they continue to be surprised. I think as long as we were respectful and were not struggling terribly, things were not a huge deal. I did at some point struggle terribly. That was when I. I did get a little bit of flack, but that was actually much later in life.
[44:47] Basanth: Interesting.
[44:48] Valerie: Yeah. So, I guess, you know, from our experiences, it may not. We might not be the correct sample.
[44:56] Basanth: I think that goes for both of us, maybe.
[44:58] Valerie: Yeah. Okay. The last question I want to ask you is kind of a question you already asked me about your music, and I love that you're more of an improvisational artist. I think being able to improvise is. It's so freeing. I played classical flute growing up, and I was great to until, like, I was great at just, like, reproducing a piece, but I never had the skill or knowledge or confidence to do anything improvisational with it. I just was not taught. And so I never got to fulfill myself as musician, and dance took over for that because I found myself being able to do that with dance, and it has shaped so much of how I think and, like, so much of my sense of self. So my question is, you know, what role does music play in forming your sense of self?
[46:15] Basanth: Do you want. So there's a short answer and there's a long answer. The short answer is that music feels like a very. It feels like a part of myself that I. While I did not have a choice so much just as a result of exposure, that it's something that I hold very near and dear to my heart. And I feel like if I were not, I don't know what I would do if not for music. Yeah. Like, I cannot imagine myself doing anything other than honoring this artwork. Yeah. So, yeah, that wasn't always the case. I think growing up, I had a very interesting relationship with music, having had aptitude but not having had inclination. Then again, as I went through my whole spiritual journey, that's when music really started to become something that I self identified with. But it took a lot more of an obsessive form at that time. And then, as you know, the hardships of life kind of going through my twenties, all the different contexts that had presented themselves and then kind of how I learned to accept myself in terms of the different areas of life, neurodivergence that we had spoken about. That's when my relationship with music became very healthy, where it was like, you don't. You can accept that you have a talent without it being your core identity as such. And, you know, and it can just be something that you do for the love of doing, rather than having to prove that you are exceptional at something. You can just do music. To do music.
[48:04] Valerie: Oh, I love that. Doing music. To do music.
[48:09] Basanth: Yeah.
[48:10] Valerie: Yeah. Dancing just to dance.
[48:13] Basanth: Beautiful.
[48:14] Valerie: Yeah. Or singing. Just to sing.
[48:17] Basanth: Right.
[48:19] Valerie: So where do you see your. Your self healing journey going?
[48:27] Basanth: I would say just more of the same. Just improving the systems kind of continuous. Continuing the practice of self love, being able to extend whatever sphere of influence I may have into being able to do good for others. I think that's kind of how I would go about it. Just keep.
[48:50] Valerie: Keep it going, keep it going.
[48:55] Basanth: Stay positive, shed light.
[48:59] Valerie: Yeah. I am currently on the path to free myself from the chains of shame.
[49:18] Basanth: That's a heavy one. Do you want to elaborate on that?
[49:22] Valerie: So, I think we all have these emotions. Shame, guilt, fear, resentment, all of this. One of the emotions that have become prominent because of, I think, low self esteem and just, you know, having kind of lived a life off rails for a while is like when you do that, when you kind of rebel, when you. When you're grasping in the darkest, you make decisions that your future self may not be proud of. Right.
[50:02] Basanth: Right.
[50:03] Valerie: And the consequence of that is that you have shame. And the consequence of shame is that you shrink down yourself. So it's like. It feels like you can't walk into a room proudly. It feels like your energy contracts whenever you're around people. So, yeah, that's the part of myself that I would like to. That I am on the path to healing next.
[50:37] Basanth: I wish you all the best on that journey.
[50:39] Valerie: Thank you. Thank you for listening to my story as well.
[50:44] Basanth: I would have honestly liked to talk less and listen more, but I. Yeah, you know, I don't like talking about myself too much, but I figured, you know.
[50:57] Valerie: Yeah, well, you know, I think the beauty of this podcast is that we could. We go both ways. Right. And it is a. It's a dialogue. It's not. Not necessarily even an interview. Right. And, you know, I get a lot of people who do kind of just want to tell their own story, but it's. It is just so cool to see that people of different paths can still share very human experiences and honor those.
[51:26] Basanth: So that's beautiful.
[51:28] Valerie: Yeah. Thank you for honestly, like, providing us the space to do that and to connect on a deeper level.
[51:36] Basanth: Thank you so much. This really warmed my heart. I don't know how. I don't know. I'm touched. That's all I can say. I am very, very touched. I am very happy to have shared this experience with you and whoever may be listening. Yeah, this is. This is very wholesome, very close to my heart.
[51:56] Valerie: All right, well, I'm going to close off by saying, thank you, everyone, for tuning in. You could find out a little bit more about Bessant's amazing background and accomplishments in the show notes. And if you're looking for some of his saxophone clips. They are also out there, so I will make sure to link some of those so you could check it out because he's super cool at the saxophone. All right, thank you everyone, and have a good night. Hey listeners, if you're enjoying the stories and insights from from the ashes, why not stay connected with our community? Join my mailing list for bi weekly updates on upcoming events, wellness tips, fun tidbits, and of course, new podcast episodes. I promise, no spam, just valuable content to help you live your best life. Head over to www. Dot intrepidwellness life and sign up today. Don't miss out. And let's keep the conversation going.
