[00:00] Valerie: Rise, renew, reconnect. Welcome to from the Ashes, a podcast where every story ignites hope and healing. Alright, everyone, welcome back to from the ashes. I am your host, Valerie Beck, and today's guest is my friend, Johnny Sage. I have known Johnny since I think, 2019 when we both did a yoga Nidra training together with our teacher, Rita Burgos, and we've both been on wild healing journeys. Johnny is a healer himself and he thinks deeply about his process. And so that is why I haven't been on here today and I'm really excited to hear his story and tell it to the world. So welcome, Johnny.
[00:59] Johnny: Thank you for having me on. And yes, we met back in January 2019 through yoga nidra training.
[01:06] Valerie: Yeah. So it's already been five years, over five years. So time flies. And yet in these five years, the transformation we've both gone through has been, I think, tremendous. So even just going through our stories and like, there's so much still that I don't know because every time we talk it's like we've quantum leaped. So I would like you to start by telling the audience a little bit about your overall journey. And then let's zoom in on one from the ashes story. I know that you've gone through a lot and you know there's a reason you are a healer and that you've chosen this path. And so a point in life that you can tell us about where you have had to shed your identity, where you've had to shift and go through the challenges of really reevaluating your life. So I'll let you have the floor.
[02:09] Johnny: To start with the overview. My journey started around 2017. That summer. I had hidden two rock bottoms that year and just financially, physically suffering sub inflammation in the shoulder and knee. I remember. And mentally too, I was suffering from anxiety and depression. And even though I don’t think I knew it at the time, PTSD, and I was also being called to do something different. What I wanted to pursue, I didn’t want to do anymore. And I was just getting called for something different, but I didn’t know what, which kind of added to the struggle when you're feeling like that. So I just had that really lost feeling. But luckily I started turning to the Alexander technique, which helps with posture, and that even though it wasn't specifically designated for healing, it kind of started my journey because that quickly led to acupuncture and ayurveda. Oddly enough, that was one of the first ones I did too. And because I star listened to podcasts and watching documentaries on this type of healing that led me to, like, those float pods and cryotherapy. So that was, those were other things that were early on. And then within a few months, I found kambo while I was searching for something else because someone had suggested plant medicines, but I didn't know how to access them at the time, but I did see kambo, so I tried that first, and that was really transformational too. And Reiki, that was early on as well. And I found these all by accident. Reiki I found, because I went to a massage therapist, and she was really good. At the end, she mentioned Reiki and I. I had heard of it, but I didn't really know what it involved. And she said she had done it on her husband and this other client, and they had really good results. So I asked my mother about it, and she said that when she went to nursing school, they offered at the community college, and she took level one. And she told me, no, it's legit. So I gave it a try, and I was really wide awake, but within ten minutes, I was fast asleep. And before that, I could feel the heat in her hands. I didn't know what it was doing, but I knew it was doing something, so it really piqued my curiosity, and I felt so great afterwards. I was so relaxed. And then within a month or two after that, I enrolled in my first Reiki class, and it was at a community college, out of state Vatican College. It was pretty nuts there, I think, 25 people in it, so it wasn't. I was still good, but we did get the most individual attention, but I still loved it. And that was the first modality I learned. So that sparked me doing more healing for myself because I could do the hand positions and the self sessions for myself. And then it quickly led to me learning healing for others. So that's how both my healing journey started and the impetus for me to start helping others, even though I didn't think I'd be doing it at the time.
[05:25] Valerie: Amazing. So I would like to dig a little bit deeper, if you don't mind. I 2017. When you hit those rock bottoms, was it something that was gradual, and what were the circumstances that led you there, and how did you know that you had to get out?
[05:47] Johnny: Basically, I was just hitting walls. And my viewpoint on hitting walls now is much different. Now, while some opposition or obstacles can be great now, I'll use that as a time for reflection. Oh, am I going in the direction I'm not supposed to be in? But back then, I didn't know it, so I kept just things just kept popping up that would just really aggravate and frustrate me, just make me wonder, why isn't this working? I'm putting in all the effort, I'm trying really hard, I'm doing the work, and just nothing was really breaking for me. And I just seem to be having the worst luck imaginable. And even up till that, I tried just so many jobs, whether white collar, blue collar, and nothing ever seemed to resonate with me. I just wasn't satisfied. I know you mentioned in one of our talks that you start something and within a couple months just either get bored or depressed or fine, why? It wasn’t for you. And that was similar to me. Granted, sometimes it might be a little longer than that, other times even shorter, but it was similar to that realization. And I just got that feeling that there’s nothing out here for me. I was just not happy, not content, no matter what I was doing. And I had a friend back from the east coast where I’m originally from. Henry became a Buddhist monk, which he still is to this day. So he was listening to what he was saying, and he had gotten me into meditation years before that. Well, I guess my first introduction to spirituality was this book on Taoism, I think back in 2011, I stumbled on by accident, but around that time, or maybe a little after, he also started sending me Buddhist talks and Buddhist books. So I did have a meditation practice before that, but it was really hard. And I would go to some Buddhist monasteries for some shorter retreats, and they were great. And that was on my mind. If I wasn't content and I couldn't really find any self realization or purpose out here, maybe I meant to go to a Buddhist monastery because I saw the growth of my friend and how well he was doing, and it seemed he really hit his stride as a monk. While it seemed a really difficult life, I could see the benefit in it, too. So that’s why I was exploring that and going, taking the retreats when I could. And that was always in the back of my mind, should I just leave society ordain as a monk? And at 2015, I had found this monastery in San Diego county that I really liked, and I would go down there at least twice a year. But then about four years later, I went and it was never as good as the previous time. And I had some reservations. I noticed some things that didn't make sense, even though the philosophy was great, but there were always things I noticed at that monastery and other monasteries that didn't sit right with me. And because I started my healing journey in 2017, I had seen that I was making more progress doing the healing than I would on just the meditation alone. And that's when I decided, oh, I still have to do more healing on myself, even before I could enter an environment like that.
[09:19] Valerie: Yeah. Can I ask, what were the things that you saw in the monasteries where it was like, hmm, I don't quite agree with that one.
[09:31] Johnny: And probably the main thing is I would always look at the avenue in the monasteries, and one thing I noticed is that they didn't seem enlightened, and some of them didn't even seem happy. One I overheard was even depressed at one of the stays I was at. So it made me realize, I mean, I didn't want to ignore that I saw or heard that. I'm like, they're having the same problems that I'm having now. So that might not be the bon go. And sometimes some of these abbots, and these were people that were practicing Buddhism for decades, they would act childish, they would talk bad about some of the other monasteries or abbots. And it just seemed really odd that I. I felt I was maturing at a faster rate than they were, which doesn't make any sense, what you think about it. So that definitely stood out the most also, and because I had an insider from my east coast friend who was at a monastery, and then I made really good friends with another one who was at the other monastery, they would give me the inside scoop, and some of the other monks there were, they'd seem like they were narcissists and possibly even a sociopath or two. And it didn't make any sense either that there'd be people pursuing enlightenment, at least on the surface, yet being abusive, even if it's only psychologically so that was definitely another off putting thing. And unfortunately, as I saw my friend's struggle with that, we're in it. You don't have much recourse when you're in that type of environment. So I understood even in a monastic setting, you could still put up with foolishness, even more so than possibly out here at lay life. So those were definitely some of the things that turned me off the most to it, which was, I don't want to say devastating, probably disheartening to me at the time, because Buddhist philosophy really resonates with me. Concepts make a lot of sense. Whenever I read a book on Buddhism, I'm like, oh, yeah, this is it. And meditation's obviously great. It has a lot of benefits. So on paper, it seems like the answer, but then the reality was a lot different. What you saw firsthand.
[12:04] Valerie: Yes, I definitely resonate with the thoughts that you've had. Not necessarily because I have never spent much time at a Buddhist monastery outside of family obligations, but just in other practices that I've done. And, you know, whether that be doing yoga and being taught by a yoga teacher and the philosophy or in martial arts, oftentimes I realized I was looking for authority and placing it on people that didn't necessarily, I don't want to say like, didn't necessarily deserve it, but they just didn't embody the wisdom that I was seeking. So you're not alone in, I think in that. And I think it's really good to be aware of that because one of the pitfalls when we go on some spiritual and healing journeys is to automatically give all of our power away.
[13:04] Johnny: Yes. And if it might not have been from the ashes story, I thought I’d telling and I went in pretty open minded, but that’s been a problem that’s been persisting even up to recently is just some of my mentors, whether it was early on or even to recently, continually not living up to expectations, I could certainly argue I shouldn't have expectations. And I do know one of my other teachers taught me, you can't idolize any of the spiritual mentors or healing mentors or consciousness teachers because we're all human. And that was a problem because like with the gurus in yoga, just about all of them had some type of scandal and people idolized him so much. And I, I saw how devastating that was at first hand in my Kundalini yoga teacher training because that broke while I was studying it and then especially in other lineages. And it's really hard to see how people can have this amazing, erudite, esoteric knowledge that can really help people, but then they're not following it themselves. They talk the talk, but they're not walking what they talk. And, and then on a smaller level, a lot of the teachers who inspired me on this journey and as then when I healed myself and started noticing things that I wasn't okay with anymore. And it was really hard because especially with some teachers or mentors, that definitely played a pivotal role in my journey. And I still give him credit for that. I don't deny that. I'll still give him credit for the good, but it was very hard for me to be let down by people I really looked up to. And like I said, obviously, you know, I default could be on me for even giving him that platform, giving him unrealistic expectations. But it was still hard for me, nonetheless. And now that, even though I don't do that anymore, it's still hard seeing what bad people there are in our field. Continuously hearing the stories, even like up to a week or two ago, that there's some, for lack of better term, monsters that are, quote unquote healers or spiritual, it's very crazy. And I. I do wish I did have a heads up. So that's why I take the responsibility of being honest about our field. And I'm careful, too, because I don't want to just be negative, and I want to make sure I'm coming from a good place and not just talking bad for. To just give me energy, you know, or boost me, do it for a selfish reason, that it is for good intent to warn people. Because I had wished I'd gone a heads up, as I've certainly seen some irresponsibility in some of my trainings, like when I was training for kambo in the Peruvian jungle back in 2018, or some other ones to a lesser degree, I saw that there's some really damaged people in our field. And when someone like me, who has also had my wounds and was looking up to them and thinking they were some sort of wise person that had done the work, but really they had just had this fake public Persona, they had maybe just done one thing, but they weren't healed, it could really be, you could really get blindsided by that.
[16:48] Valerie: I think that the realm of healing is inherently messy, because for anyone to be interested in healing, most of those people are going to have wounds. And then the people who have not had wounds can't relate. So it's like you actually want someone who has had wounds, because otherwise it is very difficult to connect with the healer, but at the same time, you want to make sure that that person has healed enough themselves to be able to hold space for you.
[17:25] Johnny: That's very true. And I heard someone say at the beginning of the year, who do people really want to learn from now? The wise old guru or monk living on top of the mountain, or the real person that's gone through the struggles and still going through them, but being honest about them and showing you them their authentic selves, they've gone through the struggles, they've learned how to overcome them, and then they're sharing it with you. And that resonates with me more now. That type of person not just say all these things that sound great, but have turned out to be unrealistic in most cases, rather than the applicable knowledge and the persons apply them themselves, and they get excited about it and want to share it with others and that they've really done the work. You've seen them when they started and you see where they are now. And that's why I got it. like I said at the beginning, I didn't think I'd be doing it, but I finally found a mode because I had tried a lot of western modalities. I had gone to therapy. I had hit a wall in that, and there were some doctors that could help me with things I was dealing with legitimately, and I tried. But then when I went to alternative healing, I finally found things that were working and working really quickly. So it was really amazing for me. And once I learned that and helped myself, I got excited what to share it with others. So that's why I started learning them. And, yeah, that's, I think the best way to go, and as a healer or mentor is to come from a place of integrity, really going through it yourself. And I, that's why I share my journey on social media. It's, it's. Well, hopefully I would like to, because I like to keep private, but the same time, I do realize, because it was important for me as well, it's nice to see someone's journey, how they were at the beginning and how they're moving along. It can be inspiring if done right. If you don't want to go overboard with it, I'd share too much. But it is nice because, I mean, you've been a part of my journey. You've seen me within a couple years of it and well over five years later now. So you've seen how far I've come, as I've seen how much you've grown, too and how far you've come. So it's nice seeing someone growing rather than people I met at the beginning of my journey who stayed there or even regressed in some cases.
[20:07] Valerie: Yeah. So there are a few things I want to ask you about. One, I saw that you have a new page called narcissist hunters. So I want to ask you about that. But I also, because I met you at a time where your name was not Johnny Sage. And I believe, you know, there's always a huge decision that goes into changing one's name. So I would like to go there first, if you don't mind.
[20:33] Johnny: Yeah, that's a good point because I am open about that. Just within, I had done a complete 180 within the, I believe the first year of my healing journey, I was just a completely different person, because I had done so much, tried so many modalities, and I went deep with some. It wasn't just like, do one session here and one session of this. Like, I was, as you could tell, even what I met you. I was really doing a lot of hard work on myself. And within that first year, I did not even recognize the old me. I just. Some people talk about this, that could sound cheesy, but in my case it was true. Just the way I would react to situations, just the thoughts I'd have, just the person I'd become who was so much different than that. I just didn't recognize that old man. I didn't feel like that person anymore. So that's why it wasn't even for any outside reason or that I just felt like a new person. I really did. And I just felt like this new person deserved a new start. I know it's another sometimes cliche reference, but the Phoenix rising from the ashes, that's what it felt like when you're just not that person anymore. Like, and if I had anything from the old life, it would felt like it would hold me back. I just wanted to go forward at that point. I didn't want. And that's why I just made a completely new Facebook. Because if I knew, if I started talking about spirituality this, I was self conscious about it because believe it or nothing, I wasn't spiritual at all. I mean, I don't want to say atheist, probably more agnostic, but I didn't want to hear crystals or guru or any of that stuff. So it was really hard for me. And then all of a sudden, and I think clap medicines is what expedited my healing journey at that point and what turned my physical, mental healing journey into a spiritual one. That's what I was like, oh, ****, what am I going to do? Because I was starting to believe in some stuff that I probably would have made fun of like six months earlier. And that was a really hard situation for me, how to deal with it. So rather than just kind of like having to tiptoe, because I really started to like what I was into, I was excited for once, or at least more excited than it had been in a really long time in adulthood. So that's why. And then it hit me in a sound healing class I was taking in 2018. The name just came to me and I was like, that's it. I'm just going forward. I'm not having any association with that old life anymore. I mean, I'll still talk about it, but it's not who I am anymore. Like, this is who I am, and this is who I want to be. The crazy thing, though, is, like I said, I did the 180 in that first year. After that, it seems like I've had even different transformations, too. So, like, I wasn't even that person I was up to the first year. I don't even know how to describe that or have the terminology for it, so it gets complicated.
[23:59] Valerie: Yeah. Well, there's something I really love about what you said, and that is that you were letting. You were kind of not letting the beliefs of the old self go along with you. And I talk about this a lot in my work, that we're constantly uncovering our true self. And by doing that, you're also shedding layers of who you were, and that is essentially letting things go. So my question to you is, when you shed your past name, what other aspects of yourself were you shedding along at the same time?
[24:40] Johnny: A lot of negative beliefs, a lot of actions I wasn't proud of and metaphorical change that were holding me back. I just carry so much trauma, and I didn't want it anymore. And I didn't even know before 2017 you were supposed to even heal. Guys in my family or friend circle, it wasn't something they did or talked about. All they talked about were sports, beer, you know, chicks, like. And that was it. I think that was pretty much maybe work sometimes. So that was. That was the level of conversation that I had grown up around for my childhood, teenage years, early adulthood. I was exposed to this world. And I think that's why I. Looking back, I always had that feeling something was missing. But it's hard when you don't know what. You just haven't been exposed. And recently, I heard this, and I felt the same way. And that's, oddly enough, when I start having my awakening was through stand up comedians. It's just like when you feel isolated from the people in the matrix. They call them, like, NPC's or normies, whatever your term for them are. But then when you finally hear someone verbalize some of your thoughts that you haven't been able to put into words, you're like, wait a minute. This is a thing. There is someone else feeling this way or recognizing it. But people like us can be very isolated, feel very lonely. So that's why I support it. And most of my life, I didn't. I wasn't exposed to those types of ideas. And now, like, luckily, the truth and a real, way better way of living is coming through spiritual people and healers because they're getting bigger platforms. But this is only a relatively recent thing. You know, back in the early aughts, this wasn't, this was a mainstream, for sure.
[26:47] Valerie: You talked about negative beliefs. I talk about this a lot because that's one of the things that I've been uncovering is the negative beliefs and the negative talk that I constantly had going through my head. And some of these are just limiting beliefs about who you believe you can be and what you think you can accomplish and what you deserve, et cetera, et cetera. And this is ingrained from early childhood. So for me, one of the limiting beliefs that I had was that, and this was not conscious that I have to be obedient in order to survive. So that manifested in a way, like, at first it served me well because culturally, this is very appropriate for who I am. To be obedient, to listen to your elders is very much expected. But we live in a society now, and my family's not from this country. So to be obedient here and not to raise your voice and not to assert your individualism can land you in some really hairy situations and it can really stunt growth. And when I finally realized, like, I've tried to listen to people all of my life and that has gotten me nowhere in terms of where I want to be because I keep derailing myself by trying to do what other people want. So that's just kind of like an example of how I've processed some of those negative or limiting beliefs. What were some that you had that you were able to let go of?
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[29:10] Johnny: Definitely resentment. And that's why I think by shedding that old identity I was able to forgive easier, which I wanted to be able to do. I don't want anything holding me back anymore. So there’s definitely resentment and just these old memories holding me back, popping up and just feeling anger about the way I was treated. Things like that, which could lead to depression or self pity, like why me? Why did I have to be put through that situation or those situations? It wasn’t fair. And which is true. I definitely experienced unfairness. But despite what happened to me, I wanted to reach my potential, whatever that is. I want to feel good. I wanted to enjoy life, and I wasn't doing that. I could find any contentment in that old lifestyle. And like I said, because I felt somebody, if I just announced I had a spiritual awakening out of nowhere. I wasn't sure of myself at that point because I lacked self confidence. I had to do a lot of solar plexus work on my journey, so I couldn't announce that I was so new that I was still self conscious and of other people's opinions, like you had been. So I wasn't ready to completely stand up by power that is, say, oh, this is who I am. If you don't like it, tough. So that's why I was at a space at that point where I just needed to start over. I just wasn't certain of myself yet comfortable enough with my new identity. And that's crazily enough. What I realized is a name really doesn't matter. It's not who we are. And I know people talked about this, this is anything new, but we're not our name, we're not a career, we're not even this body. We're not even our thoughts, because you get to observe the thoughts. Who is that saying these thoughts in our head? If we could observe, watch them, and we're not doing it. What is all this stuff? It's a very crazy concept, but it's true. We think we have this identity and we owe it to other people, whether it's family or culture or friends, but none of this stuff is true. And it makes it hard for people like us to break away from all that.
[31:39] Valerie: Absolutely. And I'm glad you mentioned resentment, because that's a theme that I've been very much meditating on recently. And the relationship between resentment and guilt and just working through these emotions that they're very linked together. I used to be a very resentful person, and it was boggling. It was mind boggling because who I was resenting weren't the people you would think. It wasn't necessarily the people that had, like, outright harmed me. I was resenting people who were kind of in these authority positions because I never felt heard by them. But regardless of who they were, it was this negative feeling that I would go back to over and over again, even when I was not in contact with these people, because it was just like I could not find a way to be self expressed. I didn't feel. I felt like I was in this cage that I put on myself, and they were the ones who were keeping it there even though they were not doing anything. And I realized later that it was me who was keeping me in the cage. I was letting them be that authority over me. And it was a huge aha moment, because then I realized, like, I have a lot more choice than I realize. It's just that sometimes the choice that I have to make is scary.
[33:14] Johnny: This path we've chosen, and it might not be a cool way to express it, but it can be scary because we're going off the beaten path. There's no blueprint for your own healing journey or starting something like the program you're doing now that hasn't been done. So it can be scary. There's so much bad guidance out there, and like you said, that's why it's easy to turn to other people, to ask them, oh, tell me what to do, please show me. But these other people, most of them don't even know what they're doing. They can have a lot of ego and just, like, telling people what to do. So that's why it's good we're growing, because in the end, it's our own cells. We have to turn to it. We're the ones we have to answer to. We're the ones in charge. We're the ones responsible for ourselves. But it's hard because of our up. If we were in an upbringing where you had to look to the elders in some cases and some situations, there would be severe punishment if there wasn't. Even when I was growing up, it was like, that's why I learned to be quiet, because if, you know, I was too vocal, there certainly would be consequences. So I definitely was in survival mode for a lot of childhood, but it doesn't serve me when I'm in adulthood, and I don't need that anymore. But if you don't heal, you just segue for that mindset into adulthood. You don't even know you're supposed to change it or even how to. It's very hard. And that's why I'm glad, like, recently, healing is getting out there. There are platforms telling people how vital it is, because before, on my journey, no one was telling me we had to, even, like, when I started it. But then I just found, on my own, I wish I had better guidance or mentor, but I guess I give myself credit. I found it even though it was against the odds. And I don't take as much time to reflect as I used to, but it's kind of cool. Curious to hear how you feel from your experience, how you came across it, too, because even though it wasn't encouraged in your family, you did it. You went against the grain and went against what you were taught. And it's very hard for being a generational cycle breaker, because before us, each lineage just kept repeating the old habits. It was just passed on from one to the other. No one stopped anything. They just observed what their parents did and continued those bad habits or toxic traits, believing they were the best they get. Just kept going on and on for as long as we can know of. But our generation, for some reason, we have people like you that are saying, like, no, stop. This is where it ends. I'm not going to do it. And I know I got a lot of pushback, and I know others have got a lot of pushback, but we're doing it anyways. And it's interesting what makes it people like us that are pushing back against the resistance, even if no one else in our family is doing it, but doing it anyways, doing the healing, discovering spirituality, raising our consciousness. It's a very interesting concept. What makes people like us versus everyone that came before us or other people that aren't doing this work?
[36:56] Valerie: So I have. We are. I believe we're both millennials, right? Okay, I'm 42.
[37:03] Johnny: Is that a millennial? How about like the.
[37:05] Valerie: Yes.
[37:05] Johnny: Okay.
[37:06] Valerie: But you are. You are. I was in high school in New York when 911 happened. And I remember that my train of thought was very different from what mainstream media was telling us to believe, to do, to react. And to this day, I thought that my reaction was one. I was super lucky to have had that experience, to process things the way that I did. I had teachers who were very compassionate. I was in a school that was very diverse and made us think not just about being the victim, but our part in being responsible for the attacks that happened. And because it's never a one way street, I think for, at least for me and a lot of my peers during that time, that was when we started to look at stories, not just from one angle, but to look at them from multiple, because we were starting to get that. And I don't know why at that time that was happening, that we were starting to shift the way that we look at our national responsibility or in the international arena, too. So I'd like to hear your thoughts on that a little bit. I think that's one of the formative experiences that we all share as a generation, and I'm sure there are others too.
[38:55] Johnny: Even though I didn't realize at the time. But looking back at it, I think that's when people started waking up. And I didn't start probably till 2004. Even though I felt like you did at that time. I didn't want to anyone to tell me how to feel or be reactive. I mean I did have the words to express that or I wasn't really analyzing it from this perspective, but I totally get that. And that's how I was. I just. At the time I think I just felt like, why don't I feel like everyone? You just feel like a weirdo, for lack of better term or description. Yeah I'd felt that even before. Just that I was different. The other circumstance, they don’t know why because no one else is like you. So there’s no one to explain with this situation to you. But now looking back at it, even though I wasn’t in contact with them, because the Internet was still relatively new, this level of communication wasn’t too high. I think that AOL its the messenger back then, but that was about it. They still had it on social media, but that’s when people I think started waking up and realizing now where it's gotten more apparent. It's almost like we live in two different worlds. The people reference the allegory of platos cave, but there's some people who just watch tv and that's reality, whatever's on there. And then there's other people who are getting back more to natural law, into with the environment and the real world, how our ancestors and the indigenous lived. Realizing this way of living isn't conducive to us. That's why everyone's physical mental health is horrible. Not everyone's but a majority of the population. And just how this planet's getting destroyed. Which doesn't add up why we're doing it, because it would only benefit us to get it back in pristine condition. It's basically these two different worlds. And it seems like the path is diverging in our society. Theres these people that want to get back to really good health, restore our food, our water, the air quality, and just maybe tune back the technology a little bit. We could still have it, but not be consumed to buy it or let it get out of hand. Then these other people dead set on wanting to take us into this dystopian nightmare. And it's really, we're really at a crazy time and a terrible conflict. Because there's like those, like you said, the people that just believe whatever they're told and like to be told what to do and the other people who won't be told what to do. We really like having our own thoughts. We're independent thinkers, and there's something in us that it feels wrong if we're told something and we just have that gut feeling like, no, there's something not right about that. And now we're getting more confidence because there's more people, while we might not be the majority, but there are more people doing it. So we're getting more confident saying no and saying no. I'm not going to get bad when you tell me to get mad if it doesn't feel right, if something's not adding up. I rather live a more humane existence. And I'm not just going to go with the mainstream just because you. There's a general consensus.
[42:26] Valerie: Yeah, and it's crazy because now, because I've made the choice to not participate sometimes and not just observe. And it's just really striking to see, even like the people around you, your friends and whatnot, get very carried away by the wave of emotion that mainstream media wants us to ride, that we all, yeah, I can say a lot about this, so I'm trying, I'm actually trying to hold back a little bit. But it's just that like, we allow ourselves to get so angry and to make such quick judgments and to create conflict and so much of that isn't necessary.
[43:11] Johnny: No. And if you notice the news cycles, a lot of it's put out there to elicit either anger or fear, usually alternating back and forth to some degree, never provide solutions either. It's always more problems than, oh, this will be an even bigger problem and we'll give you, it will make suggestions that will turned that into an even bigger problem. That's why the news has gotten so ridiculous. And I don't know why people even watch it anymore. And I think that's why podcasts have exploded popularity, where the viewership of the news programs, especially the mainstream ones, keep swindling because people realize it's not, there's something wrong with that. It's not making them feel good. Although, well, they call it like anger ****. It could be a drug feeling angry because it could make you feel powerful, make you feel like you're doing something when you're not. It's really just release a cortisol in your body and it's mabred, but it's providing that short burst of energy. And if you're not mindful of that, you're not going to notice it. But it's amazing. While there's more people that are realizing this and thinking like we are, we're still at the majority yet. So that is something to consider. It's not guaranteed that more people will wake up. Well, I think they will. I know more people wake up, but will enough people wake up in time to make a difference before it's too late?
[44:52] Valerie: There's something that you did right when I was looking at your Instagram post about how frustrating it is to see the masses in their version of waking up. I'm paraphrasing here, but what does that look like to you?
[45:10] Johnny: Well, that was. What? Well, there's a few. It's okay if I give a longer answer to this?
[45:17] Valerie: Yes, please. Yeah.
[45:19] Johnny: There was something I found surprising about the healing and spiritual communities. I thought everyone would have the same goal and intention I did like with. I thought, oh, people saw what this could do and it helped them. Surely they'll just have good intentions for others. But no, like I said, there's narcissists in the healing field and the metaphysical communities. There's, as I mentioned, even social paths. And that was what led to the narcissist hunters, which I might get into.
[45:53] Valerie: Yeah.
[45:54] Johnny: And even when I took some consciousness classes, too, or went to events, there's this. I don't even say this is a judgmental way. And this is another thing. If we have time, I could talk up the difference between judgment and being discerning and how people can guilt you for being discerning, saying you're judgmental, but it's really to put your guard down. And then you could be susceptible to things you weren't. What? I would beat these extremely talented healers or people talking about such intelligent aspects of consciousness, and then they'll quickly turn on dime and be like, oh, but the news says this, like, why you still watch the news? Oh, okay. Yeah, that's. And I don't do that in a pretentious way, like, oh, I'm better than them. But to this day, I don't get it how people can lack that awareness, because I don't consider myself any special type of person. I'm not, you know, a rocket scientist or have. I'm not the most highest IQ out there, but yet I'm able to see these things. What is it that makes someone able to see the truth and others not? It's been something I've been explored for a while now. And I, as I told you, why this aspect of my healing journey keeps changing. Because there's different things that arise.
[47:23] Valerie: So one of the things I wanted to mention for the audience here is that I think that we all have our blind spots and the aspects of life that we're ignorant. And that's not necessarily a problem. But I think the problem is that when people assert that they have omnipotent sight and have wisdom of all knowing, when they haven't done the work, to actually back that up.
[47:58] Johnny: Yes, that's a very good point. And that's why I think my first experience with that was plant medicines, because they dissolve ego and give you a bird's eye view of yourself so you could see your blind spots. Or why I got involved with men's group, men's groups, and started the sacred men's work so I could be at a group where I'd be held accountable and have people point out stuff and be like, I'd rather get defensive. Really take that into consideration. And maybe it's bad advice. That's okay, but at least consider it. But you're right. Like, that's the thing. I know I applied spots, but I welcome them being pointed out. And if they truly are, because some people can have bad attention, they're just trying to play. There are people like that that might try to sabotage you, but it's really still worth considering and you recognize what's trying to help you and what's bad advice. But, yeah, it's knowing that. But if so, it's like, oh, I don't have any blind spots. This is. I've come all the way and I know everything. It's like, oh, really? And my experience is that usually turns out to be false.
[49:10] Valerie: I've come to accept this now that even the greatest of texts and the supposedly wisest of people all had their. Their weaknesses. And I, that's okay. But it also falls upon me. My responsibility is to not be the person that's gullible enough to take everything that that authority is saying, but take the wisdom. Take the wisdom that is there, but also have the discernment to also discard what is not useful or what is harmful. I'll let you speak first, because I think there's a little bit I want to process here before I keep talking.
[50:02] Johnny: Yeah, absolutely. And which goes into the judgment versus discernment, because when I got into the healing community, what I was doing myself, I stumbled upon the new age community and the love and light people. And I was curious about it because I'm like, wow, these people are so positive, and they're like, oh, don't. If I have bad vibes or have bad emotions. Just everything's love and light. And I'm like, is it really? And I was curious, so I explored a little deeper and tried some stuff. And while I think a lot of the modalities they offer do actually help, and it can still be a good practice to try, I think a lot of stuffs worth trying. But I found it ultimately fell short because, no, not everything is love and light. And then I stumbled upon the term toxic positivity, where it's actually bad. It's hard to use the words good or bad, but. But it's not healthy to just suppress negative emotions. And as, like, I was talking about a man in my lineage, it's like, that's what I was doing. So I'm trying to break away from that and be able to healthily express my emotions, because when you keep it in, it has to come out some way, and usually in an unhealthy manner. So that's what I found. And also, those people that were just saying love and light, it looks great on Instagram, and it sells much easier. But when I got to know them, they weren't living it. They weren't really like that. So that was another moment where it was like, oh, and I. That's the thing in that community, they're like, oh, don't be judgmental. And there is certainly, I think being judgmental isn't the best way to go. But there is discernment, and discernment supported because it can keep you away from misaligned people, keep you from getting taken advantage of. I tell you, it turns out there were a lot of narcissists in our field, and I was giving people the benefit of the doubt that I shouldn't have. So discernment is really important just because so as a healer or spiritual or conscious doesn't mean they're a good person. And you could listen to them and take what they say in as a topic, but that doesn't mean they're someone you necessarily want in your life either. And to protect yourself so you can still appreciate what someone says, giving them credit for that, but also not putting them on a pedestal, as you were talking about at the beginning, realizing they're still humans so you don't have to necessarily look to him for everything.
[53:00] Valerie: So that brings me to want to discuss your narcissist hunter's movement, and because it's come up a lot in today's conversation. Right. And, yeah, I want to hear a little bit about what your goal is for that, your mission, and also, like, why it's important to you.
[53:21] Johnny: It's important to me because I grew up with narcissists and my family, and I didn't know what they were. Back then, the only time people used narcissists was kind of as like a joke. They'd be in an animated movie with an arrogant guy, just like, combing his hair in the mirror. It was more funny thing. We didn't really know what MPD was. But then in 2015, by random, I just came across some type of poster forum where they listed narcissistic traits. It caught my eye. And once that light bulb goes off and you realize, wait, that explains everything. There's actually a name for this. And that's why someone was acting the way they were, because it's such an unusual behavior that it doesn't make sense to a normal person why someone act like that? What are they getting out of it? Because we're taught that everyone's basically a good person deep down, and what's the best for everyone. The reality is that's not true. I mean, I just heard this from a former CIA agent on a different podcast earlier this week. 10% of the population are either, he said, 1% are psychopaths, 3% are sociopaths, and the 6% are narcissists. And that's just they know of. So that’s 10% of our population at least. Because people with those traits don’t self-report, that don’t want the best for everyone. They actually get thrills when people are suffering or unpaid. Its a harsh reality. And I don’t think a lot of people like recognizing that there’s a dark side to humanity, that these feel good mantras aren’t true. And it's just hard, because we like to think that humanity is a noble species, and at the end of the day, we'll do what's right. And I do believe a lot of us would, but there's certainly some that would. And ignoring that isn't making the problem any better. Because another, if possibly cliche reference is that the darkness doesn't go away by ignoring it. It goes away when you shine light on it. And that's why I felt empowered when I started learning about this. Because once I put it, found out what it was, it got a name to it. And the reasoning, I was able to heal from it easier down the road, even though I did start right then and there. Because, like I said, I didn't know I had a heal. But even recognizing it kind of felt like a burden was lifted off my shoulders. Because with narcissistic abuse. You think you're the problem, especially if it's a family thing or a group thing, because there's something called a scapegoat. So your point out is the problem, even though in reality you're a good person, because narcissistic families or Fred circles are basically cult. So you feel like the outsider, like you're the problem. But then it starts realizing, okay, I didn't, there wasn't anything I did to deserve that. And the odd thing was that I did see coming was that there were narcissists in the spiritual and healing communities a lot, and which I recognized my first experience with my training down in Peru. The guy turned into the guy who was running it turned out to be probably a malignant narcissist. And then the following year, I had experience with a covert narcissist, which I did not know about. So I got blindsided again, and she was pretty vague in the community. So it was very weird. And coverts can really catch you by surprise because the grandiose overt ones, once, you know, you could see them coming a mile away. But the COVID ones could be shy and humble, even self deprecating a little bit. And if you grew up, like you said, things you want to shed from childhood, one was people pleasing. I certainly had that ingrained into me. So that's how it was. And that's a recipe for disaster. If you're an empath and have that quality and you come across a covert narcissist because you think they need help, and then you're not going to see the cycle of abuse that will come. And because it's so subtle, with a covert of death by a thousand cuts, it's not so obvious, like I said, with the overt ones. And then there I learned there were communal narcissists and vulnerable narcissists and white knight narcissists, it keeps going. And while narcissism, the topics really come into the collective consciousness, I'd say the past five or six years, still not many are talking about the ones in the spiritual and healing communities. So I felt that might be my calling. I really feel the stuff that happens to us isn't by accident. So I'm like, why? Why did I go through this? It doesn't make any sense at the time. But then I realized, no, this is a good topic. And it really can help people. It could help one, it help them heal two, empower them, because I don't think empaths are here to just be abused. Our whole lives, we can become empowered. We really have gifts that can help others when we're doing things like you are. Start a podcast to get good stories out there and with your healing modalities, we're not here just to be miserable, take advantage of, and letting these outspoken, abusive people just rub things either in our individual lives or collectively on the planet.
[59:10] Valerie: Yeah, I feel like we could talk on and on. Unfortunately, we have run out of our time. But I want to maybe ask as a final question, is that, you know, looking at your quest here to help other empaths heal and to also battle some of the narcissistic tendencies of others in our society too, what do you see as being a harmonious point where we can all strive to get to inner consciousness?
[59:47] Johnny: That's a really good question, and I don't think it's a simple answer because what I'm coming to the conclusion of is that we're all so different, which is why I liked Ayurveda, because it recognizes our bodies are different. Like just what I was exploring different eating options when I heard a really intelligent vegan argue their point, or a really intelligent person doing the carnivore diet. They both make sense. And how is it possible when both of you just say, oh no, this is the only way, and the other saying no, this is the only way. And they, in their arguments, they both make sense. So that's what I started realizing, oh, maybe we're all different and there are different things for all of us, like what's right for me might not be right for you, and vice versa. And that's why I liked 30 different modalities. And I'm glad I did, because what really helped me the most on one thing might not be the best way to go for another person. It's hard because especially when I first started, I wanted there to be one right answer. One road to enlightenment, one road to higher consciousness, one road to heal yourself physically, one road to heal yourself mentally. The truth that I found, at least until this point, is there's not. We're all so different. We've gone through different experiences, we have different constitutions, and people don’t like that answer. But its what I’m finding out to be true, especially like with the western medicine approach where its like, oh, take this pill twice a day, what’s it this time? What’s at that time? Theres nothing really set in stone with a lot of alternative modalities and ways of living. And it presents a challenge for us. I mean I rise to that challenge. One thing it silly makes it not boring. So where I was getting bored with pretty much everything before this, but like I said, people don't necessarily like this answer. It's not the popular one, but I don't think there is one solution for everything. Even someone I liked listening to in the conscious community. He's passed away back in 2017. But Jacques Fresco, he had a good point about he had an envision for a resource based economy and he said it wasn’t a utopia because everyone’s version of a utopia is different. What someone would think was a utopia in 1950 would vary greatly from what one of us thinks utopia is now. So considering we all have different perspectives and viewpoints and live different lives that let us form all these opinions and visions, there isn't one right answer. So really the best advice I could give is to explore different things and see what's right for you. And as you said, which I think was very important, is notice what feels right for you. You take into account what the other person's saying, but at the end of the day, be mindful of it. Really notice what type of effects, if you're going for healing, that it has both short and long term, and really take into account does it feel right? Is this making you feel better? And even if it's not healing, if it's a personal attraction, you'll know when you're moving in the right path. And as another word, are you scary? That's why it truly is a scary or intimidating journey, because we don't know what's next. If in the old way of living, you could work the same job for 40 years and retire, there was less uncertainty. We're living lives that are just about as uncertain as you get, which don't have any. It doesn't seem like they're going to change in the future either. So that's why you really need to let go and just trust if it feels right, that's on the right path. I truly believe that doors will open for you when you are in alignment and you'll still have the challenges and obstacles. And that's probably another thing that's been really surprising on my journey, is I thought, oh, once I learned the right way to deal with something, then my life would be so much easier. And no, not necessarily. I could deal with that more efficiently. But then the universe will throw another challenge at me that's sometimes more difficult. And a mentor phrased it that this life is like a video game. And if the video game was the same difficulty for 100 levels, you'd return after level ten. So that's why we're presented more challenges that are increasingly difficult as we grow. But you could welcome them and have a different mindset about them too.
[01:05:03] Valerie: I love it. I love that you have embraced the unique journey of you and I definitely second that recommendation. That really to start to listen to your own intuition is one of the best ways that you can know yourself. So with that, I would like to close off and thank you Johnny for coming on. I look forward to the next time we talk, whether that be in a year, two years, or who knows and see where we are at. But until then, thank you and take care you our.
