[00:00] Valerie: Rise, renew, reconnect. Welcome to from the Ashes, a podcast where every story ignites hope and healing. All right, welcome back, everyone, to the from the Ashes podcast. I'm your host, valerie Beck, and today I have my guest, ryan hawks. He has a master's in sports and performance psychology and leads a team of 50 plus employees running a homeless assistance program. I'm super happy to have you on the podcast today, ryan. I've learned a little bit about you already. I know that you have had your own podcast called the Hawks nest of Peak performers, that you're a writer of poetry, you're a gamer, and fellow Final Fantasy fan. So welcome, ryan hawkes.
[00:53] Ryan Hawks: Thank you. Thank you. Super glad to be here. Excited to do this, and thank you for the wonderful introduction.
[01:00] Valerie: Yeah, I'm very excited to dig into just kind of the soup of what you are, actually. Maybe it might be like a salad of what you are. Right. There's a lot of different things going on, and that's what makes these conversations really interesting, is because when I talk to people, I just learn so much about the depth of their lives and just, like, the various parts of their lives that make them them. So I would like to begin with our typical from the ashes story. So, a from the ashes story is a story where you found that you had to really question either who you are, what you believe, or just felt like you had to press the reset button on life and how you navigated those challenges. I'll let you have the floor.
[01:45] Ryan Hawks: Thank you. Yeah, you know, I do have one story with that. It's a very flashbulb moment in my life, and I think for a while, I kind of wondered, is this even aside from this podcast, is this really one of those stories of coming from it? But I've come to accept that it was. So I'll mention it. And it was a really big memory, and I remember this very vividly still. I was laying in my bed, and it was like, mid. I mean, it was like 04:00 p.m. right? I was, like, asleep. I was just laying in bed, and I was just completely unmotivated. I didn't know what the heck I was doing with myself, my life. I had, like, finished my bachelor's degree, like, a year before and really just, like, limped into getting that bachelor's degree. After taking a leave of absence with one class remaining, I kind of was just done. So I took a leave of absence. I was gone from college, doing my undergraduate San Diego State for a year. I went back, finished that final semester and graduated and then I was like, okay, now what? I went into it being a psychology major, knowing that I was going to have to get my masters like a bachelor's in psychology is garbage. You know, it's nothing. But I didn't know what I wanted to do with it. You know, I think like some things like got me like social psychology seemed interesting but nothing quite what I wanted to do and just the fact that I had really like barely made it in and like killed myself working because I, I also like put myself through college and I also made some like kind of bad financial moves when I was younger too and paid for. So I spent a lot of my undergrad like working 60 hours a week between like three jobs and doing that full time. So I was burnt out. I was burnt out and I didn't know what I wanted to do and also kind of like partying a little bit too much because, you know, what else am I going to do after finishing school and not knowing? So yeah, I was just down and out and like all of my hobbies disappeared too. Like even all my stuff. Like I wasn't, you talk about Final Fantasy and intro and like I wasn't playing video games, I wasn't playing Final Fantasy games. I, you know, kids used to play music and base and I wasnt doing that. I wasnt writing or anything. And so I was just laying there thinking like what do I enjoy, what makes me happy or used to make me happy? And I thought, well, I like running, I like jogging and I havent really been active so lets try that. So I kind of got up out of bed and I put on my running shoes. It's kind of odd thinking about it, but I put on my running shoes and literally just youtubed motivational speakers and interestingly enough, one came on that I had heard the week before in HBO, hard knocks. It was Eric Thomas. I don't know. Have you heard of Eric Thomas?
[04:55] Valerie: I have not.
[04:57] Ryan Hawks: Eric Thomas is funny. They call him like the hip hop preacher and he's one of those like motivational speakers. Uh, the line that really stood out to me about him from what I heard in hard knocks was like, everybody wants to be a beast until they have to do what beasts do. And that was another thing that lit me up because when I was kind of younger, working like I was, that was my standards and I used to go around, be like I'm a beast. Like I'm a beast in here, like, I'm going to come in and I'm going to outwork everybody, and I kind of lost that. So it was really, like, I'm starting to run. This motivational speaker comes on, and it was like, really, like a fog cleared from me, and I was like, I'm back. Wow. Yeah. Okay, so that was how it started.
[05:45] Valerie: All right, so can I dig into that a little bit?
[05:48] Ryan Hawks: Of course, yeah.
[05:49] Valerie: So you mentioned, you know, you had to work through college, and you had one class left before you could finish, and that's when you dropped it, right?
[05:59] Ryan Hawks: Yeah. Yeah.
[06:00] Valerie: What were the circumstances that led to that decision?
[06:03] Ryan Hawks: Yeah, you know, it was kind of the. I think it was the semester before that, like, really broke me, and that was, like, crazy. It was the craziest semester ever. I was. Initially, I was a double major, psychology, Spanish, and what broke me was the Spanish. You know, when I went, I finally had gotten to the upper level spanish classes, and that's where you go from, you know, just, like, you know, learning your vocabulary words and reading short stories. Now, I was in a translation studies class where we're translating political speeches, commercials, and we're doing, like. Like, all of this, like, multiple ones between classes. But what really got me was the literature class, and I loved it because I'm a literature buff. But the first book that we read was called Sienanios de Soledad, or 100 years of solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez. Have you heard of that one?
[07:02] Valerie: No.
[07:03] Ryan Hawks: No. So this is a book that, like, for a spanish native speaker, is a challenging book to read. So for me, and I. And I was the only non native speaker in that class, interestingly enough. So what? They're over there and they're reading it and doing okay. We had to read, like, 50 pages between classes. And for me, it took me, like, an hour to get through one page because I'm having to look at my spanish English dictionary and use lingui to translate this book because it's, like, crazy Spanish for me. And mind you, I'm working 60 hours a week, so a lot of times I would get back from work and. And I would do this homework, and I would just stay up as long as I could. And I was getting, like, an hour or two of sleep. So I think overall, long story short in that, like. Like, there wasn't enough time in the day. I was sleep deprived, and. And it kind of broke me.
[08:06] Valerie: Yeah.
[08:06] Ryan Hawks: And I also got a sinus infection, partly because I found out I have dog allergies. And I love my dogs, but also two of those three jobs I was working, one of them was at the Home depot in the building materials department. A lot of cement and concrete and wood, and the other one was at a construction waste junkyard. So. So, yeah, when I finally went to the doctor, he's like, what are you doing? Number one, I was in there with, like, 100, some plus degree fever. The first question, he was, Washington, how did you get here? And his next question is, what are you doing? And then he goes, yeah, you probably need to quit one of those jobs. You've got a terrible sinus infection. Your. Your immune system is, like, done for.
[08:56] Valerie: That's a. That's actually amazing to hear from a doctor these days. It's like that. They could pinpoint that source.
[09:03] Ryan Hawks: Yeah, okay. Yeah, it was funny what they did. I don't know how he did figure it out. I think I did mention something about having, like, sinus issues and stuff like that, that, you know, my breathing had gotten. Gotten a struggle. But, yeah, it was interesting to have that go on and, yeah, I mean, the next semester, too. What kind of got to that? Was that. That class, the last class I needed, I failed it. I failed that class. So that was, you know, kind of strike two. Whereas number one, also that spanish class, that intro to litanous, I went. I put everything into that class. I got a d. I got a d because I just couldn't keep up. And then the next one, you know, to fail that other class, it was because your tests were based on three. Three. Your. Your grade was based on three exams. They dropped the lowest score of one. One time I had my sinus infection.
[10:00] Valerie: I couldn't.
[10:01] Ryan Hawks: I couldn't attend. I was. I was in bed. And then the next time I showed up 15 minutes late because I was leaving one job and going to school. And the TA was a very smug ta. Wore a suit and tie, and he very much enjoyed telling me that I was too late to take the exam, so. So, yeah, I think that's what it was. When I kind of look back at it now, it was like, the first, like, real failure that I kind of experienced in life. Like, the first time where I gave it everything, I had a. Like, I gave it everything, and I. And I didn't come out successful, so I was tired.
[10:39] Valerie: Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine.
[10:41] Ryan Hawks: Yeah.
[10:42] Valerie: All right, so we've painted a really big picture here of, like, you know, you have a sinus infection, you're getting sick, you're exhausted, you're working, you know, more hours than you could probably handle while trying to maintain school. And naturally, then your body kind of breaks down and you, and your mind also is tired, and so you have to take this break. Yeah, I feel like this ties in really well with what you do and a lot of the messages that you like to put out there. And it's, I want to ask, like, because when these things happen and they pile up one by one, it's almost natural that you start to question your reality. You start to question what, you know, what you believe. Right. Did you have anything like that where it's like, what am I doing? Like, and where you started to really see things differently than how you had seen them before?
[11:30] Ryan Hawks: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think the image that we were sold, my generation of being like a millennial talked a little bit about this is like, hard work pays off, go to college and youll do fine. And to see that it didnt, because even though I was working as much as I was and I was a little bit in debt because just going out on my own early, but I was working all of, all of these jobs that were, like, super low paying and not getting anywhere. I was like a hamster on a wheel for years and years and years. And, yeah, I was tired. I questioned it all. Like, what is this all for? You know, what is this for? I, like, barely got this bachelor's and. And now what? And now you're telling me that I have to put in another, you know, I don't even know what I'm going to do for this master's degree. I don't know what college is going to take me to because I had, like, real world work experience, but I had zero psychology experience. And, you know, even if I do make it in, like, am I even going to be able to focus on the schooling? Is this ever going to pay off? Is there ever a light at the end of this tunnel? So, yeah, there was huge questions on that.
[12:44] Valerie: Yeah. So I have to ask, since you ended up putting on the hip hop preacher, what did you learn in that moment? Like, what did you realize?
[12:53] Ryan Hawks: Yeah, it was interesting because in that moment, it was kind of like, it just reminded me in a way that there was hope. And I think it was his message, too, because he was someone who did kind of come from that. I mean, he talked about, like, he used to, like, eat out of trash cans for his food and, like, sleep in abandoned buildings. And it kind of reminded me, like, okay, it's possible still, like, this guy did it. Like, this guy did it, so you can do it, too. So, you know, let's start. Stop complaining, and let's stop playing the victim and, you know, comparing yourself to other people who, you know, maybe did have different circumstances or chose different paths in life that, you know, were quicker results. And let's get back to work, and let's get back to your passions, and let's start fostering, you know, what you do enjoy and remember that you did once believe that it was possible to, you know, pursue what you were passionate about and, you know, survive. Not just survive, but thrive, really. So that's kind of where I was.
[14:00] Valerie: Yeah. So in your bio, you talk about mental toughness. So I'll give you a little bit of background. A funny story, actually. I did an internship in San Francisco. When I was in college, I was also a psychological psychology major, psychological services. I ended up at a church called Glide for my internship, and I was told, basically assigned to a charter school on Treasure island, working with former gang members to develop a mental toughness program. And at the time, it was just really interesting that I was assigned to this because mental toughness, a lot of people don't really know what that entails.
[14:47] Ryan Hawks: Yeah.
[14:47] Valerie: And you would think, like, gang members have mental toughness, they don't need a program on it. But then, you know, what I realized is that it's. It's not like the. The tough mentality per se that we're trying to build here. It's actually more of a resilience that comes from within. So I want to hear your take on mental toughness. And, you know, what it. What it takes to be mentally tough.
[15:11] Ryan Hawks: Yeah. Yeah. Mentally tough. When you think about it, it's really, to me, like, it comes from within and spreads out. You made a good comparison there, and it's a lot of, like, maybe you would see, like, certain people, like, gang members or whatever, may have an exterior that they portray as mentally tough, whereas really, like, that's just a shell, but inside, they're not. Right. They have no resilience in this and that. So the mental toughness is something that starts from within and then kind of spreads out. And it means that you're able to persevere when obstacles come your way. You're able to keep the right mindset when things. When things are good and when things are bad. Many times you're thriving and you're seeking out challenges and seeing them as opportunities rather than shying away from them. That's kind of a succinct answer to it.
[16:04] Valerie: Yeah. So leaning into challenge rather than running away.
[16:07] Ryan Hawks: Yes. Yes. Leaning into that challenge and knowing that, like, that helps you to grow and be a better person.
[16:13] Valerie: So, you know, from that place of, you were lying there listening to, and you went jogging. What was your story after that that allowed you to continue building that mental toughness?
[16:25] Ryan Hawks: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the jogging was a big thing because it was something that I loved. I am one of those weird people who, like, enjoys running and just to kind of get those endorphins flowing and, like, feel that natural thing, it was crazy because I jogged, like, miles, like, miles that day after not jogging in, like, probably five, six years. And then I remember my wife was at work, and then I went to pick her up and I was just, like, jazzed. Like she asked. She's like, are you, like, high or something? Like, what is wrong with you? I'm like, no, I just jogged. Like, I'm, like, so pumped right now. Like, I'm motivated to really, like, get out there and start thinking about what I want to do again. And so the next thing was, like, thinking about, again, what else am I passionate about? And one of the, one of the passions that did stick with me because was, was football, NFL, you know, that was, like, the last passion that I at least kind of had. I really followed football. It's very, very easy to do. So one of my friends was going through some stuff himself, and so we said, oh, well, let's start a podcast. In fact, it's how I got this microphone. He actually bought them. He bought the mics, and then I ended up with them for, for whatever reason. That's another story. So we start a podcast, and it got me to make a Twitter account. And that was the initial passion, was putting out that podcast. And like, okay, here's something I love that I'm working towards again that I'm pushing myself to do well at instead of just skating by. Because what had happened over the years, too, I went from being that beast who was going to give my all to work to the bare minimum. I'm just going to show up and I'm going to get my job done, and I'm going to go home because I just don't care enough anymore. So that was that. And then it really moved quickly beyond the podcast, which I actually only made a few episodes with, but I had gotten recruited to a few sports writing websites. And, I mean, that just really reignited me because now my biggest passion really has always been writing and finding ways to write. And so that was it. That was a new thing of, like, okay, you know, I've never, I've written, you know, some poetry here and there's some fiction here and there, but I've never written, like, sports articles. And I quickly kind of pushed myself into, let's figure this out now. Let's kind of go from there and see where this sports writing is and not even thinking about doing it as a career to make money. But just like, let's use this to, like, wake me up, like, to do something that I love doing. I'm not even thinking about the money because I'm used to being broke, so I don't really care if I make money from it, but I just want to be really good at it. I just want to write great articles that give unique perspectives. And eventually I did want, you know, I was writing to, like, get views because that's kind of validation that you're doing well. But, yeah, I mean, that that was kind of step two was like, let's move into writing and, and get that passion from there.
[19:40] Valerie: Yeah. So how did you go from that to running a homeless assistance program?
[19:47] Ryan Hawks: Yeah, now that's another fun story. So kind of there's an in between there, and that's where grad school starts. And it was, I was still, before that, I was still tutoring at southwestern community college. And so now I'm kind of, I'm kind of talking to people. You know, I'm tutoring kids and, you know, sometimes not kids, they're adults. But by that time I'm like, what, 27? And they're like 20. So I'm getting a little bit too old to be doing that job. But anyway, one of the students I was tutoring had kind of mentioned to me like, oh, you know, we're getting to know each other. And he's like, oh, have you ever looked into sports psychology? I was like, what the hell is sports psychology? And he tells me, he's like, you know, it's this field of psychology where they focus on that. You know, you seem like you love video games, you love NFL. You know, he would probably be pretty good at it. So, yeah, I looked into it, looked into what colleges were out there, and probably within like a week or two was enrolled in the college that I was going to do my masters in. So that was that. And then from there, one semester in, im like, okay, its also, like, time for me to get a full time job, like set income. Like, no more. I cannot do however many more years of three jobs, 60 hours, crazy schedules, going through grad school. This is just not going to work. So I basically just applied to, like, how many jobs a day. And to get into this program I'm in now. Like, I legit didn't even know what I was going to do the first day because I interviewed with them for one position. That position was like a scheduler. And then they're like, okay, we actually think you'd be good at case manager. Let's interview you for that. And then they're like, okay, maybe not case manager. How about you just be a program assistant for family services? And I'm like, I don't know what the hell that is, but sure, give it to me.
[21:54] Valerie: Okay.
[21:55] Ryan Hawks: So I legit showed up day one. I had, I had no idea what I was going to be doing. I just knew I had a full time job for the first time in my life. But kind of building on that, it was something that was, was weird because my first six months in that position, I did not enjoy it. It was my first time looking at an office setting, wearing a tie, and I was a metalhead who still wore band shirts at all of my jobs before that. Just throw a collar shirt on and I'm still showing it. So different atmosphere. I definitely had some snafus early on, but what, what got me was my work ethic. You know, I, that was back. But I hated it. I hated it. But it was humbling because it was an entry level position. And I did go from being like, like my, I was, I was like a supervisor for a tutor. You know, I was like interviewing, hiring, running trainings. And now I'm like, at the bottom and like, people were, I'm trying to, like, get people to, like, help me and, like, do stuff, and they just look at me like, why is this guy talking to me? Like, who is this person? So I hated it at first until I went into case management when I got promoted to doing that and doing case managing for the homeless population. Now I loved it because I'm starting to implement not only some of the tutoring skills that I had gotten, but I'm also able to start implementing a few of the things I'm learning in grad school. Because case management is really similar to counseling. It's similar to performance enhancement consulting, where you're looking at their lives and helping them be better versions of themselves.
[23:37] Valerie: Yeah, yeah, for sure. But it's a really good position to make a really huge difference, I think. So what are the most rewarding aspects of your job?
[23:50] Ryan Hawks: Yeah, I mean, it's a lot. I think it's been a journey through. I mean, definitely when I was doing case management was probably some of the most rewarding parts of it. I've really loved the one on one case management because you're really working with someone. And on my end, they're coming in a lot of times in crisis and they have kids. My population is all those on public assistance, so they're coming in in crisis and they're down on their luck. And to help them kind of get through a lot of their barriers that caused their homelessness and to be able to be a resource for them and see them kind of grow and get into the point where they are in housing and they're stable, you know, that there's nothing like that. There's nothing like seeing that and seeing them on their journey, each family. So that's huge. I mean, and if you really dig deep in it, it's like the barriers are more than you would think. A lot. You think sometimes it's like, oh, they're lazy or they're this and that. Sometimes they just had a bad, bad luck and no resources and some, sometimes it's the randomest things. One of my favorite clients that I had, like, I had to get real with her. It turned out that she was having housing barriers and employment instability because of her personality. She was stubborn. She came in. She was one of my first clients that I had that I got on my caseload, and all she needed was, was help with rent and deposit, getting into a place. She was going to rent a room. She had just gotten a good job as a dental hygienist. And about a month later, she comes back and, you know, when I first saw her, she's well, very well put together, you know, very, very, you know, all made up, you know, nails done and everything. And then the next time she comes in again, almost unrecognizable because she had, she was now in a shelter. And I said, what happened? You were, you're on your way. And she's like, oh, you know, I had to quit that job I was at because they were just, it was like high school, and they were being really mean to me and not letting me do this and that. I was like, oh, well, that's unfortunate. You know, hopefully you can find a new one. And, but what about your, your place you're living in? Oh, you know, the same thing. You know, they, they were, like, getting mad at me because, you know, they wanted me to be home by a certain hour because I was waking them up and this and that. And basically I had to kind of get to the point with her where I was like, look, maybe it's you. Like, maybe sometimes you need to compromise, because I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna help you out now. You know, luckily, you didn't utilize all your assistance, but sometimes you just gotta deal with people you don't like at jobs. And when you don't have your own place, you gotta abide by other people's rules. And, you know, maybe sometimes there's. There's certain things. And throughout that, I had gained her trust enough to figure out that there was. So her personality came from a lot of trauma, and we were able to work through that. But, you know, that was, that's. That's memorable, and I love. I love doing it. So being a resource and trying to also, like, get the stigma of social work away, because there's two myths about it that I tell people. The first one is, is that they're understaffed. That's true. The other myth is that they don't care. That's a myth. I mean, everybody doing this job, like, we ain't in it for the money. It ain't great money, and we're way overworked. So, you know, they do care. It's just sometimes hard to show that.
[27:27] Valerie: Yeah, and. Absolutely, because I think they're just. There's such demand, too, and such need for it, and we just. We're not meeting that need. And I really like that story that you told because it. It can be so close to you. Just, you can see yourself in other people's suffering and, like, how that could have easily been you.
[27:51] Ryan Hawks: Oh, yeah.
[27:52] Valerie: Like, if you had allowed your, your personality to run a certain way, to. To make the choices a certain way, it could easily have been you, too. And it just brings you a little bit closer to just all of humanity, I think.
[28:05] Ryan Hawks: Yeah.
[28:06] Valerie: Being in the position that you're in.
[28:07] Ryan Hawks: Yeah. I mean, interestingly enough, if I look back on it now, I could have easily been homeless, too. You know, I was. I was between jobs at one point in my early twenties, and luckily, my brother in law's girlfriend, who, he had only been with her, like, a few months, like she said, oh, yeah, come stay with us. So, like, that's the difference. You know, a lot of people have had those instances in their life. It's just that some people don't. Don't have people who are willing or able to take them in like that.
[28:35] Valerie: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
[28:37] Ryan Hawks: Yeah.
[28:41] Valerie: Hey, listeners, if you're enjoying the stories and insights from, from the ashes, why not stay connected with our community? Join my mailing list for bi weekly updates on upcoming events, wellness tips, fun tidbits, and, of course, new podcast episodes. I promise, no spam, just valuable content to help you live your best life. Head over to www. Dot intrepidwellness life and sign up today. Don't miss out. And let's keep the conversation going. Okay, so I want to go and ask about your podcast, the Hawks nest of peak performers. So what inspired you? Or actually, we kind of talked about that, but, like, what to you is a peak performer?
[29:28] Ryan Hawks: Yeah, a peak performer is somebody who is. I'm trying to say it without being redundant, but it's someone who is just constantly striving to improve and really is just like, they kind of have their passion, they have their field, and they're just thriving there and not necessarily even, like, thriving. It doesn't mean that they're a master at what they do. It doesn't mean that they are going to do that forever, even, but it means that they found something that they're passionate about, enough about to really push themselves to constantly improve in. That's kind of what I see that as.
[30:09] Valerie: Love it. So how would you describe the advantages to being a peak performer? Like, why should someone ascribe to being one?
[30:19] Ryan Hawks: Yeah. And this is where I get fascinated about it, because to me, there's something about peak performance, too, is that it's almost like a paradox, because on one end, you're pushing yourself. So it's not always comfortable. It's not always comfortable. But what makes you a peak performer is I can't force you to be one. Right. I can go, especially now when I'm supervising a lot of people, I can't go and force somebody to be a peak performer because I push them hard enough. They have to want to push themselves. So the advantages of being a peak performer are kind of self evident in that you want it, you want to excel, and why do you want to do it? Because you love it. You love what you're doing. You're passionate about it. And so it's not necessarily work. And that's what I see a lot in the people that I have interviewed so far. The very few I've done is, like, the reason why they excel and they do so well is because they love what they do and they want to kind of do whatever field that is justice.
[31:27] Valerie: Mm hmm. Who would you say? Give me a couple of examples of, like, peak performers in the more public eye that you follow.
[31:40] Ryan Hawks: Yeah, I mean, the one that always comes to mind and just kind of thinking about me in a sports sense is, like, Kobe Bryant. Right. I mean, that mamba mentality, like, he, like, they don't accept mediocrity from themselves. They're constantly trying to improve. They're constantly working at their craft and trying to get better and finding any little nuanced ways, you know, especially, like, someone like Kobe played forever in, in the NBA, and sure, his physical skills were declining at some point, but, like, how, how long was he great? You know, I mean, you've got LeBron James now who's, what, is he going to be 40 years old this year and he's still going at it? Tom Brady, peak performer, like, the definition of, you know, just really constantly finding ways to continue to improve their game. Athletes are the easiest ones to find because they're in the public eye, and it's really, like, easy to see in that kind of lesser known and maybe not quite in the public eye, but there's the podcaster I really like, which is rich roll. I don't know. Have you heard of him?
[32:48] Valerie: I feel like that I vaguely have, but I don't know anything about him.
[32:51] Ryan Hawks: Oh, man. Love me some ritual. So I listened to all of his podcasts, and as a podcaster, he's a peak performer. I mean, when I listen to his podcast and then kind of listen to others, it's not that other people are bad, but his are so much better because he's. He can tell that he's constantly trying to find ways to improve his craft as a podcast host. You know, how can he find the right questions to ask and find interesting questions, find the little tidbits that maybe people don't know about the other person or that they've never been asked. So, you know, stuff like that.
[33:26] Valerie: I love that because, you know what, what that really points to is curiosity. It's like you have to also. You want to be good, right? But you also believe that there is something beyond what you already know, and you constantly are pushing that edge of like. And it's a mentality of also fun, I think. Right. It's not that you're trying to be the best. Maybe there's an element of that, but there's also a genuine, like, what would happen if that is part of what you're describing?
[34:00] Ryan Hawks: Definitely. Yeah. Pete Carroll, who was the, he was a longtime Seahawks coach. This will be his first season where he's not of the Seattle Seahawks and formerly of USC. One of the great books I read that he collaborated with Michael Gervais, who's my favorite sports psychologist. He was the mental skills trainer, sports psychologists on the Seahawks for years. You know, he calls it like a culture of grit and competing to create, and he uses competition as a way to improve themselves. But you're not. The competition isn't to be better than it's to improve. You're competing and you're seeing like, like the person next to you and your opponent. You're pushing your limits to see what those limits are so that you can go beyond them. And that's kind of what a lot, what peak performance looks like. It's. It's, it's. It's curiosity, too. It's like, what are the limits? You know, what are they? And can I push past those? And if you have that curiosity about you and if you have that work ethic to dedicate, then you're probably going to make it at some point in terms of being a peak performer.
[35:06] Valerie: Fabulous. All right, so I know that you are also a gamer and you also write poetry. So there are a few other things that you do that are more on the either the artistic side or more on the. I don't even know what to call gaming. What side of is that? But how do these different sides of you factor into you being able to push your own peak performance?
[35:34] Ryan Hawks: Yeah. Yeah, it's true. I mean, the one thing is like, embracing the passions, you know, finding a. Finding ways and to just, like, do what I love. Gaming is an interesting one for me because there is a part of me who's like, what? And that's kind of, I think, like, maybe some other issues of, like, workaholism maybe, but it's like, what is gaming doing for me? Like, at some point, it is just kind of like a. Even less than a hobby, but like a leisure activity, like kind of unwinding. But at the same time, games like Final Fantasy, where they're just so rich in terms of their story, kind of give you that worldview perspective. I mean, it's shaped me a lot. I mean, I've played every Final Fantasy game that's out there pretty much. And just kind of the overall theme of those final Fantasy games is just like being a good person. Being a good person and like, you know, kind of being a advocate of justice and not tolerating it and just really giving you the creative output. When you think about it, the story is the same a lot of times, but they find a creative way to put it in a new light and to spark emotions. And really it's storytelling. Yeah, because that's part of peak performance, too. And on my end, where I'm kind of still figuring all of this out, like, where I fit in with life is like, you know, if you want to do things at a macro scale, where I'm trying to get in, like, inspire change and inspire peak performance at a macro scale, like, I need to get people to listen and people interested. So, you know, storytelling is something that I'm really. It's a skill I'm trying to develop. And I think video games can help you do that with that storytelling.
[37:39] Valerie: I agree. I think about this a lot because, you know, I think a lot of people who don't play games don't understand that it is another medium. And it's actually a very rich medium because, you know, in a book, you're directed by the writer's direction. That's all. In a video game, you actually have choice, and it's almost like you have a hand in a story that is about to unfold. And ultimately, yes, the developers are creating that arc, but they're trying to convey a message and you have a choice in how that message is played out. And you also kind of get to be in there along with the characters in the story, which I really like. And since you really love seven, Final Fantasy VII, and so do I, we can also talk a little bit about just how, you know, the. The ways of thinking and the values that are in that story just to give people a little bit of context. Final Fantasy is a japanese role playing game, and Final Fantasy VII actually came out in 1997, I believe.
[38:48] Ryan Hawks: Yup. Yeah.
[38:49] Valerie: Got it on PlayStation. It was a huge hit. And the backstory is really interesting in that it's kind of like these eco terrorists is what they call them, right? Who are doing, like, running a mission to try to take on this huge corporate conglomerate that, like, who's running the energy on the planet. And it's. None of these people are perfect. And that's what I love about it. None of these characters are perfect and they're actually hugely imperfect with, like, huge traumas. And you actually get to. To see it. You get to see how it unfolds with all of these imperfections. I just think it is such a work of genius how they were able to do that and keep people riveted just so enamored with the story even now in 2024.
[39:42] Ryan Hawks: Yeah, yeah. Seven was such a crazy game that I learned Microsoft PowerPoint because. Because I made PowerPoints where I, like, put in, like, little midis of the music and, like. And, like, I didn't even show him to anybody. I didn't have Internet to, like, show them. I would just, like, watch this PowerPoint with, like, cloud stripe and, like, a little bio that I had written on him with, like, his music playing. Like, that's how, like, into that story I was. Yeah, I mean, it's true. It's. It's telling you the story of imperfect people. And I think that's what made it so great. What for me was it was one of, like, the first stories where it's like, the hero isn't some knight in shining armor, perfect dude. He's the antihero. He's like, he doesn't even want to do this, but he's thrown into it. But his morals make him continue. His morals say, shoot, you know what? I've got to do this. I'm seeing this stuff going on and it's not right. And to an extent, at some point with seven, without too much spoilers, it's not even like to save the world. It's more like almost like a personal vendetta, but, you know, inadvertently there's some world saving going on.
[41:01] Valerie: Yeah. As there often is.
[41:03] Ryan Hawks: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[41:06] Valerie: I think, you know, that's. It's the kind of story that has inspired me to be more open and, like, to really see people beyond my judgment of them. It's just so easy to judge people and, like, to be like, that guy is too hot headed. That guy, you know, like, isn't worth listening to. And it's like everybody has a side that, like, we might not like, but, like, there's also a whole world behind them. There's a whole story. There's a whole human history behind each person. Yeah. And I think, you know, playing games like this has actually opened me up to accepting a lot more of humanity.
[41:50] Ryan Hawks: Yeah. Yeah. Question on you. And you kind of were trying to figure out gaming, what to call it. There is a. I don't. It's kind of died down. But do you think that video games are art?
[42:03] Valerie: Oh, absolutely.
[42:05] Ryan Hawks: Yeah.
[42:06] Valerie: I feel like that's like, kind of. To me, it's really obvious, right?
[42:12] Ryan Hawks: Yeah.
[42:12] Valerie: To you, I'm sure it's. Do you agree?
[42:15] Ryan Hawks: I would. Yeah, I would agree. It's interesting because some of the game developers themselves and writers are say, no, it is not art, which is just odd to me. It's art. It's creative. If it's a creative thing and you're making something, it's art. Right.
[42:33] Valerie: And they are making statements with these games. You know, another series that I really like is Persona. And there is so much social commentary that goes on in that game that's very bold. You know, they question a lot of the problems that people face and, like, you know, our society's role in creating the problems that they face. And, you know, there's a stance and there's also the actual pieces of art that are in there, the music, the visuals and all of that. Like, that's everything is very intentional and is very artistic. And I think if you think about art in that way, it's like, of course it is a piece of art.
[43:12] Ryan Hawks: Yeah, yeah, I agree. It's always been an interesting debate to me. I'm like, who would, why? Why would you say it's not even you as an artist? Like, don't take that away from yourself.
[43:23] Valerie: But, you know, yeah, I think that is a really interesting argument. I don't know why people would argue that, but, yeah, so then I want to also dig into the poetry. How did you get into that?
[43:36] Ryan Hawks: Yeah, I often think about, I crack up about poetry a lot because I have always been wanting to be a writer, right. Since I was in third grade, I wrote my first little short story, and I would say, I want to be a writer when I grow up. But it was one of those things where people say, you know, like writing, not many people could do that. You don't want to. You don't make a career out of that. So I've always kind of had it more as a hobby and kind of go on and off with writing. You know, where I'll go years without writing and then kind of have this awakening again where we're all right and, you know, it all just. It all kind of makes me think that everything happens for a reason, because what, when I really started to get serious about writing and into poetry, finally, Washington was after I got denied entry into San Diego State University because I screwed up on my application. And so what happened? There was one of the coolest times of my undergraduate education, where I spent a year just taking classes that I wanted to take for fun because I still qualified for financial aid, so why the heck not? So I took what I wanted. But before then, I remember still being in 8th grade, and my english teacher was always like, man, you know, you're a pretty good writer. You know, she writes some poetry. Sometimes I hate poetry. Poetry, stupid. I'm never going to write poetry. And I remember telling him on the last day, still, like, I still don't like poetry, man. Like, it's not going to happen. But now it's like, the main thing I write, which is so funny to go back to it, but you know, coming back to that, some of the classes I got to take were creative writing classes and literature classes, so. And then at that same time was when I started tutoring at that same college in the writing center. So now I'm actually, like, surrounded by writers, and I have people who are, like, interested in reading my stuff, and they have their own stuff to read, so. So that was kind of where it started. And I really started actually, like, honing my craft there because in those classes, you got workshopped, and I learned a. Some of the basics around storytelling and story writing and poetry writing and things like showing, not telling, and some of the formal poetry meters and things like that structures how to structure poems. And it was just another way of challenging myself. Again, at that point, I was able to really push myself from going to this person who wrote for fun occasionally. Like, I mean, I've been writing forever. I even. I wrote in. In middle school. It's so bad. I was such a mean person. But. But one of my teachers, I wrote a. Had a short story series based on him called the evil, fat, dumb teacher. And, like, people in school would just be, wait, when's your next one, man? And then we also made a spinoff from that, which was a comic called Fat Mandev. And the teacher was, like, a secretly a wannabe superhero, but, like, instead of, like, solving the crime, he would go and, like, make things worse. So it was so funny. So, you know, I just did stuff like that and, you know, no real, like, formalized things. So, yeah, then when I finally get this. This more formalized training, in it, there was some good and some bad, because then there's also some times where I, like, I remember writing this one story, and at this point, I'm, like, 20 years old, and I remember I wrote this piece called America the Machine, and I thought I had figured it out. I'm like, I thought that this was going to be groundbreaking. Like, look, I'm exposing that this whole corporate system is a rat race, and we got to get out of it. All my peers are like, okay, we know that, dude. You're just learning this. So that was fun in that regard, too. Too. But, yeah, I mean, I just started really doing it in writing, especially poetry writing a lot of poetry and honing that. And then eventually that kind of fell off the wagon, too, before the whole reawakening of my from the ashes story, you know, I kind of. I did that for a few years there, and then. Yeah, that fell off. I had no energy or passion for it.
[48:07] Valerie: Yeah. You know what? I hear also from that story is that, well, you saw writing as a way to make change. Right. I think you seem to have this knack for storytelling that has been there for you for a long time, since child said, huh?
[48:27] Ryan Hawks: Yeah, it really is. I did notice that, that I've always been a good storyteller. Naturally, you know, I'm that guy at parties wherever, you know, people gather around me to listen, and I'll kind of gain that attention, and it's a blessing and a curse. And sometimes I'll notice, too, like, okay, time. We got to always have something to say here. I don't want to be that guy who always one ups you with the story, but, yeah, I do. I have that natural knack for it.
[48:57] Valerie: Yeah. And I think I also, you know, what's present to me is like that you really do want to make a change. And I think you said this over and over again is that you want to make this change on a macro level.
[49:07] Ryan Hawks: Yeah.
[49:08] Valerie: And I think even though people don't, they're like, oh, yeah. Like, we already knew that America's this whole thing. And the thing is, like, the difference is that you care. And a lot of the time, like, yes, we have this kind of awareness that we are being exploited, but we accept it because it somewhat benefits us. Right.
[49:27] Ryan Hawks: Yeah.
[49:29] Valerie: But it takes another level of integrity, I think, also just to be like, I don't really want to play in that system because it doesn't really sit well with my values.
[49:40] Ryan Hawks: Yeah.
[49:41] Valerie: Like, what role do values play in your everyday decision making and what you do in life?
[49:48] Ryan Hawks: Yeah. I think my overall value that guides everything is authenticity. I mean, just authenticity is huge. And when I say that, it's like I want to be the same person everywhere. And I've talked about even at work, it's especially can be a struggle for me in my job now where I'm kind of at this management level, and sometimes I'm expected to be someone I'm not, and I'm unwilling to compromise on that. I'm going to be that same person. And that was part of that whole thing was, I think when I had lost some of that passion, I had felt like I was being forced to assimilate and conform to society or else, not because I hadn't conformed and look where I was. So, yeah, authenticity is just the top value of being who you are and being able to show that to others, and it helps them to be themselves, too. And also seeing how, like, being yourself, like, makes you happy, you know, like, I don't have to hide things. I can be me at work, the same person at home, the same person. If I go out to eat with coworkers and the same person with other people, it's huge that.
[51:09] Valerie: It's so funny that you said that because that was, like, the one point on my notes that I was like, I have to get to it. And I had almost gotten to get to it. I remember. Because listening to your podcast, you actually ask your guests about what it means to be authentic to them, and sometimes it catches them a little bit by surprise. Right. But I definitely. I get it because, like, I, you know, I have these non negotiable values as well. And, like, I think authenticity is definitely one of them. Like, I don't want to be walking through the world feeling like I can't be who I want to be.
[51:43] Ryan Hawks: Yeah. Yeah. And it's. It's a tough word, too, because there's. There's another side of authenticity. It doesn't mean that, like, you could be an ******* to everybody, you know, I mean, I'm just being my authentic self. Like, you have to kind of, you know, get in and get in and compromise sometimes, you know, if you can be authentic without harming people, that that's where I'm at. As long as I can be authentic and not harm other people, well, then we're on the right track.
[52:12] Valerie: Yeah. I think part of authenticity, too, is when you are harming other people is like, can you be. Can you see yourself in it? Are you able to catch yourself? Are you able to be self aware? Because that, you know, I think the more you're self aware, the more truly authentic you can be.
[52:31] Ryan Hawks: And authenticity is so huge because that's because you. It also goes hand in hand with awareness, which is. But awareness in terms of sports psychology is, like the foundational skill. You can't improve on anything until you're aware. And unless you're being authentic to yourself, you're not going to be aware. There's many people who lie to themselves, and they either don't trust their gut, they don't listen to it, or they're not being authentic because they don't want to feel belittled or whatever. There's many reasons, but people, I think, lie to themselves more than they lie to others. And then your authenticity is gone. Then you can't improve, and you're going to be miserable because you can't accept that it was your fault or that you made a mistake. I think about things at work when I'm dealing with people and it's, dude, you messed up. Let's own it and move on. Sometimes I can tell they're bsing me. They don't want to admit it, but sometimes I'm like, this. This guy doesn't even realize that he messed up because he's unwilling to admit it to himself or herself.
[53:44] Valerie: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have caught myself even in very recent times, like, just, you know, the lies that we tell ourselves, it can be very tricky because you think you're doing the right thing when you're convincing yourself that you think you're doing the right thing. You can lie to yourself about a lot of.
[54:03] Ryan Hawks: Oh, yeah, it's a muscle. It's a muscle that you have to work out. I mean, being authenticity and kind of being in touch with yourself and, you know, you got to have a practice to kind of work that muscle out. I mean, for me, and I think for many people, mindfulness is huge, you know, and that's also a big mental skill, is mindfulness in sports psychology. And doing those types of practices, whether it's meditation or other, you know, kind of similar things, is, you know, that's how you're going to build that authenticity and that awareness muscle.
[54:36] Valerie: Okay. All right, so we have room for, like, one more question. So since you have kind of touched upon mindfulness and meditation. Yeah. I want to hear a little bit about how that has played a role in your life and how you teach others as well.
[54:52] Ryan Hawks: Yeah. And that's. That's where I get. I'm, like, super lucky that I had a high school teacher who taught us mindfulness and helped us practice it. I think especially for adults, what turns people off to it is it's hard. It's hard to do. It takes a lot of time. But I had this teacher in high school who we would practice it. I don't know if it was weekly, multiple times a week, but he kind of built us up, and it was like, first we're going to sit in silence and just kind of focus on just being aware. Focus on the, you know, your senses and everything around you. And then, you know, we're going to do it for 1 minute. And then we built up, and at some point, we built up to, like, 20 minutes. And I remember just kind of being. I was like, wow, that did not seem like 20 minutes. And. And he gave us practical situations to use it in, which were, like, scholastic, like, before a test, you know, before you. If you're in a. If you're playing sports before that. And so I would use it and I saw that it worked. You know, I would use this and, like, okay, before a test, I'm a little bit antsy. Let's do some mindfulness practice. And so I had practiced it forever, especially, like, during some of those high stress times. I mean, I remember multiple times of, like, being so overwhelmed once, like, getting to work and, like, wondering, like, hoping that I have enough gas to make it home and not running out of gas. So I was just, okay, have a few minutes. Let's sit down and do some mindfulness for a few minutes and kind of let those feelings go and focus on the now that I, what I can control, which is doing my job, and I can't control if my car runs out of gas. So there's no point in worrying about it. So let's focus on releasing that thought and not keeping it in to torture me. So, yeah, I've always done it or try to teach it to as many people that'll listen as a kind of a supervisor leader in showing people the value of that. Yeah.
[56:54] Valerie: Amazing. All right, so to wrap it up, you know, let the world know, what is your next big step?
[57:01] Ryan Hawks: Yeah, I've got a lot going on right now. I'm almost ready to kind of not relaunch, relaunch the podcast, but overall, like, just launch Hawk's Nest Peak performers. Hawks Nest Peak performance is the overall company name that I'm kind of getting out there. There's going to be the podcast whole return. There's also just going to be kind of solo videos pretty soon on YouTube where I give some information on what these mental skills are that I hinted on, like what what they are, like how to use them in everyday life and sport and gaming and work, what they are, how to use them, how to improve them. And then I'm also going to have a Pokemon channel. And kind of the reason for that is because it's a hobby. And I'm also going to kind of show how I use those mental skills in Pokemon trading card.
[57:51] Valerie: Very interesting.
[57:52] Ryan Hawks: So there's that. Yeah. And then my, my passion project that I'll never end on that is also I'm finishing my first book. I don't have a deal or anything for it, so it's not, but I know it's going to get out there. So it's a book that it's going to combine poetry, prose, and, like, stories throughout my life of how I've got there. In fact, it's actually going to start with the story I told here. It's actually starting with that it's really a flashbulb, watershed moment in my life, so that I'm hoping I get out soon as well. And it's going to be a different format of visual and poems and narrations and stuff like that. So that's kind of in general. Yeah. I mean, I'm a very eclectic person. If you want to follow me in my craziness on Twitter, you can find meribrid.
[58:44] Valerie: Fantastic. I'll put that link in the show notes so that we can get it.
[58:47] Ryan Hawks: Thank you.
[58:48] Valerie: All right. It's been a really interesting conversation. Ryan, thank you so much for being here. Really enjoyed it.
[58:53] Ryan Hawks: Yeah. Glad to be here. Glad to come back anytime as well.
[58:58] Valerie: Awesome. Thanks.
