[00:00] Valerie: Rise, renew, reconnect? Welcome to from the ashes. I'm your host, Valerie Beck, and today I'm excited to introduce my friend, Abe Cajudo. A true Renaissance man and problem solver, Abe's creativity spans across film, XR, music, design, and more, making him a multifaceted talent like no other. From co writing stage productions to editing video game trailers, Abe's knack for innovation and his ability to connect ideas and people is truly inspiring. I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I had making it shut.
[00:47] Valerie: All right. Welcome back to from the ashes. So, today I have my friend Abe Cajudo with me. We are both residents of Long Beach, California. He has called himself a multi potentialite, also a multi hyphenate creative, an entrepreneur. And I know him because he helped my husband, Greg, with his sake secret campaign, and we got to meet through that. So it's been a really cool process and really good to get to know you and Stephanie, your wife. So today I get to dig a little bit deeper into your journey and your life. And welcome.
[01:24] Abe: Thanks for having me on, Val.
[01:25] Valerie: Thank you for being here. So I always start by asking people about their from the ashes story, but I actually went ahead and I looked at your bio before we started. And before we go into that story, I just want you to tell the audience what a multi hyphenate creative is.
[01:47] Abe: Yeah. So a multi hyphenate is one of those terms that's going around again in a lot of sort of professional settings. In terms of, like, workplace, it's. It's. It goes around the hyphen. Right. When you hyphenate something, you. You like, you and I are Asian Americans. I would consider myself a Filipino hyphen American. And so a multi hyphenate is someone who has, I would say, multiple identities or multiple ways that they think about themselves or multiple ways that they. They exist in the world. And so multi hyphenate in a creative or a professional standpoint for me is I'm a director, I'm a designer, I'm a musician, I am a Filipino American, I am a foodie. And all these different things that I consider myself, that I consider that part of my identity, I consider that something that matters to me and ways that I sort of move around in the world.
[02:45] Valerie: Excellent. Thank you. And another cool thing that I read in your bio is that Seth Godin once called you for advice. So what kind of advice did he call you for?
[02:57] Abe: He did. So Seth Godin, for everybody who's not familiar, is one of the first, if not the first, Seth that comes up in Google when you search for the name Seth. So I think it's between him and Seth Rogen. But Seth Godin is very different than Seth Godin. Seth Rogen. Seth Godin is. I would call him an author. I would call him a marketing genius and a really thoughtful person in terms of entrepreneurship and business. And, yeah, he called me for advice one time. We had mutual friends, and one of our mutual friends connected us because he was starting his first Kickstarter campaign. So this was like, you know, several years ago, but he was starting his first Kickstarter campaign. So Seth likes to experiment with new mediums. Like, he's always experimenting, whether it be, like, through books or through speaking on the stage or doing podcasts. And so Seth, you know, saw this emerging sort of format of Kickstarter, and he just had no idea how to, like, use it or get started or whatever. But he just knew he wanted in and he wanted to experiment, as he likes to do with his book releases. And so I think this particular book release was either probably denied from his publisher. Like, he. He floated the idea to his publisher and they were like, yeah, we're not sure, so sure about this, but he really felt strongly about it. And he was like, well, maybe Kickstarter is the perfect place for me to test and try this out and show my publisher that there's demand for it. There's a demand for this topic, this book topic. And the book, I think the final title that he ended up calling it was the Icarus deception, and that's about the story of Icarus. Are you familiar with the Greek?
[04:45] Valerie: Got too close to the sun?
[04:47] Abe: Yeah, he got too close to the sun. So he wanted to play with that metaphor. He did play with that metaphor, and he wrote a book about that, the story of Icarus and how it relates to business and marketing and life. And he basically told a little bit about it on Kickstarter. But I guess my role in it was pre launch. He hit me up and he was calling several people, and he just wanted to know what I liked about the platform and what I'd done in the past at this point, had worked on the video for a fashion campaign. So talking about, like, multi hyphenates and. And different identities, I was working with a fashion emerging fashion company, and they launched their fashion brand on Kickstarter, and I did the I directed the video, edited the video, did the motion graphics for it, and it ended up being, at the time, it was the number one most successful fashion campaign on Kickstarter, the Versalette. And Seth had seen that through our mutual friend, and he was like, hey, I want to know what this guy, like, thinks or, you know, how he's able to make these successful campaigns. I think one thing that I really remembered leaving him with is, like, how can you surprise and delight your backers, your Kickstarter backers. And that was a big one. That's sort of a running theme in my life. And, like, the types of projects that I like to do and, you know, the type of art that I like to create is, like, you know, how can you surprise people? How can you delight people? And, like, how can you make them feel something and feel a certain way, you know, whether that be joy or happiness or, you know, excitement or just, like, surprise or laughter. Like, I want to leave people with something that they could feel. And Seth really took that to heart. He had some really interesting rewards. One of them was something that I had no idea he was going to do, but I just went home to my parents house in the Bay area. So I was visiting my childhood home, and so I was getting rid of some stuff, and one of them was one of the things that I found in my room. I didn't get rid of it, but it was Seth's book from this campaign, and it's seriously, like, the largest coffee table book you ever seen. Like, it's over. It's definitely over 30 pounds. So imagine a book that's, like, that big. And so it's this, like, obnoxiously big book. And the way that he framed it, like, during the campaign, I think, was like, this is a collection of my blog posts. This is a collection of my writing over, like, ten years or more. I can't remember the exact amount of time, but there's a lot of pages. And the book, like, had to be special delivered in a huge buck. Like, I think when I lifted up the box, when I got it, like, the book was starting to fall out. It was that heavy. And so I saw that in my old childhood room, and it was just a good reminder of, like, oh, he went all out. Like, he did something that no one would ever expect for him to do, like, in his campaign. So you want to do a book release. How can you surprise and delight your audience? How can you leave them with something really memorable, really remarkable in his words, Seth Godin's words, and have an idea worth sharing and spreading. And so that was one of the things that literally is still stuck to my old room. And I don't think I'm ever gonna get rid of that thing. Cause it's a memento. It's something to remember, like, always.
[08:20] Valerie: Awesome. Yeah. I mean, pretty big highlight. I also want to backtrack a little bit. And let's go into your origin story.
[08:29] Abe: Yeah.
[08:30] Valerie: So on your bio, you wrote that your lowest slump was leaving friends and the lifestyle. I love to search for answers to problems we couldn't solve with our current level of thinking or collective experience. I would love to hear the story behind that slump.
[08:50] Abe: Yeah. So that slump was a really early one, I guess I would say going back to high school or junior high. And, you know, this is, I guess, refreshed in my mind because I just went back to my old childhood house and was driving around those streets and talking to my family and just being surrounded by stuff from my past. So it's kind of fresh in that sense. But I remember I grew up in a town called Vallejo, California. It's in northern California, about maybe two thirds of the way from San Francisco to Sacramento. So right next door to Napa. And this was, like, in the eighties and nineties. And at the time, it wasn't a great place to live or grow up. There was a lot of violence. There was a lot of drugs and gang stuff. And I went to, like, this really underfunded school district. And so all of those things sort of combined, you know, both shaped me, but also informed my worldview and how I sort of looked at the world around me. And I guess this goes in line with the multi hyphenate, too, because I was always kind of bouncing between worlds. So Vallejo was like, a certain way. Like, you had to act. You had to dress a certain way on the streets. Like, for survival, you had to dress and act a certain way at school and at home and around your friends. And then I would go to church right next door in the Napa valley with my family. And it was just so different over there. I don't know why we started going to church over there, but we went to church in Napa. And so on Sundays, like, I would be exposed to this entire world that was much more affluent, a lot whiter, for sure. And just people just acted just very differently than where I was living the other six days of the week. And that always sort of informed my worldview of, like, oh, there's much more than just this little sort of insular place in Vallejo that exists. And it gave me the travel bug. So when it came time to choose a college, I ended up choosing the one that was the furthest on the map that I could still get my dad's veterans sort of benefit. So I chose San Diego and, like, UC San Diego. And I think it was in between, like, high school and college where I initially had that thought that you read about. How do you bring, like, new ideas back to, you know, the people that you care about so much, you know, the community that you care about so much? And so exploring, like, just became a huge theme in my life. Like, I wanted to go out there. I wanted to see what was out there in terms of what me and my friends and my family were into and then bring these ideas back and be a translator in a sense of like, oh, how come, how come we can't succeed? Or how can we look at certain communities or certain people in a way that, like, oh, that's not for me. You know, how do you tell people that you love and you trust that? Why can't it be for you? Like, why can't you do something that's not the norm or not sort of, like, in the. In the everyday sort of expectation of you and, and your loved ones? And so that's been a running theme in my life. And that kind of goes back to what you. What you read in that of, like, how do we bring new ideas or good ideas back to the people that I. That I love and the communities that I love and do it in a way that I'm still speaking their language, but I'm also, you know, trying to bring us all up.
[12:43] Valerie: Okay, that brings me to my next question, is having had that experience, or it sounds like you made some kind of choice, right? Maybe you left your hometown for a while to do this exploration. Did you ever find yourself feeling like you had to change an essential part of who you are in order to move forward?
[13:08] Abe: Yeah, every day. Every day was that I had that tug of, like, why am I wired this way? Why is everybody that I'm sort of interacting with now? And I'm speaking of, like, you know, when I first got to college in UCSD, and so that's the common experience for a lot of college kids that come from, you know, very, I would just say, insular kind of place, and you go and you get exposed to this diversity of ideas, that diversity of thought, and you're like, oh, is this a right way to be? Is this how I'm supposed to be? Like, acting or moving around in the world? And so that tug of, like, identity was always sort of, I always say, even still is, you know, tugging at me, and it's like, how do you balance what, you know, to be true about yourself and. And what you believe in and your values and what the world is sort of asking of you, what your current situation or your current circumstances are asking of you? So, yeah, I guess to answer your question, that's always sort of been tugging on me. And what was the second part?
[14:20] Valerie: I guess it's like, do you remember a specific time in your life where it got to be so, like, maybe your identity was so questioned or, like, the way that you knew to do things was so in resistance with what you were coming up against that you felt like you needed to fundamentally change? Like, do you remember specific moments of that?
[14:40] Abe: Yeah. And there's a time where I actually did change my identity. Growing up, I was, like. I always considered myself just like, a musician. I was a trumpet player from, like, third grade all the way through beginning of college. And, you know, I'd perform. I'd do competitions. I went on tour with a drum and bugle corps, and I just did so much around music, so it was, like, a huge part of my identity. And now I remember a story. I applied to go to UC Berkeley, Cal, and my cousin was there a couple years ahead of me, and she had introduced me to the band director at UC Berkeley. And I remember going with her on a tour of campus and meeting the band director, and him very desperately playing to me, like, we need trumpet players for our marching band, for football games, whatever. We need good trumpet players. And so I told him I was on tour with the blue Devils, the drug bugle corps in northern California. And he was like, oh, my gosh, we would love to have you. If you get into the school, give me a call. We can work out a scholarship thing for music. And so I thought that was my path. I thought I was, like, gonna get into UC Berkeley. Like, I was gonna play the trumpet, I was gonna be in band, and I was gonna have part of my college education paid for. I didn't get into UC Berkeley. I just probably, you know, missed the cutoff or whatever. I got into several of the other, you know, comparative schools, but I did not get into there. So, you know, that that forced me at that time to rethink, like, oh, my gosh. Like, if I'm not going to be a musician, what am I going to do? And I was kind of stuck in that way for, like, freshman year of college, I was like, all right, I still want to do music, but this school don't have a band. The school that I pick, there's not a good band here that I want to do. I'm like, I have to do my own thing, or maybe I'll switch to singing because I also sang a lot and performed as a singer. And it just turned out that I didn't actually get rid of music, but I did put it off to the side. But it continued to inform everything that I experimented with in college, and it informed me getting into filmmaking and directing and editing, I had to find the rhythm or the music in all of those different art forms. And that was sort of what made me see, like, directing or editing a film or editing a video. In that way. I'm like, oh, there's something not right about this. The music of it is not right. And that's how I sort of filtered my way through the world in that I wasn't doing music sort of explicitly in terms of, like, performing music all the time as I was in high school and junior high and elementary school. But it was still informing everything, even myself, like comedy at the time. So I got into sketch comedy and ended up directing and performing in sketch comedy videos in the early YouTube days. And I didn't know how to do all that stuff. I didn't know how to do video editing or anything, but I just taught myself because I'm like, oh, I know how the final product should look like, I know how it should feel like, more. So I know how it should feel like, and it's not there yet. So I'm going to use the tools around me. I'm going to borrow a computer that can actually edit or I can borrow cameras from people to film these things and just basically, like, you know, taught myself how to do all that stuff. But it came from the music of it. For me, the music really just informed it, like, how, how people spoke, like, what was, like, the rhythm or the melodies between, like, you know, comedic lines and timing. Like, I needed to find the music in those things. And I think it worked. I'm still going, like, I became a professional editor for a 3d animation company after that, and that was off of my self taught stuff and just kept going after that. I kept directing, kept designing. But music, I always will say, is my first love. But even though I put that identity off to the side for a little while in terms of explicitly doing music, it was always there. It always will be there for me.
[19:12] Valerie: You know what I'm hearing underlying that ability to kind of weave what you already know into future, just open possibilities and to navigate kind of like, what the opportunities are sounds very much like an embodiment of when there's a will, there's a way, and it's a mindset that a lot of people don't have, including myself. Unfortunately, I do get stuck in the mindset of just feeling stuck sometimes. But is that something that you feel was taught to you or that you had kind of growing up already?
[19:52] Abe: Yeah, I'm a, I come from an immigrant family, and, you know, I actually immigrated here with my parents from the Philippines. And so I think a lot of, like, that, that old filipino sort of way of doing, of just, like, surviving at all costs. If you just think, like, about philippine history, it's. It's a history of colonization and just different foos just trying to come up on our country and us actually living with it. So there's a lot of talk in the filipino community about assimilation, and we read that in the history books about the melting pot theory of America versus the salad bowl. And so that's always sort of been at play, I guess, so that where there's a will, there's a way. Is that assimilating, if you think about it in that lens, or is it like surviving? Is it a little bit of both? And I think it's a little bit of both. I think the survival sort of instinct goes back generations for me. I was very fortunate to have my grandparents live with me when I was growing up and my parents. And so I learned a lot from them as a kid and how they sort of lived their lives and lived out their values. And I guess one of those values was, you know, find a way to make it happen, you know, like, it's. It's not. It's not for you to easily sort of give up. And. And I guess, like, you know, call it quits. And so that can also be on, as, you know, with, like, mental health and everything, like, on the toxic side, too, right? Like, you shouldn't have to, like, not quit anything. Like, there are plenty of things in your life that you should quit if it's not working for you, if it's not serving you, and if it's not healthy. So just, I guess dealing with that is, like, the, where is the will? Where there's a will, there's a way for my grandparents and my parents sort of upbringing and raising me, I guess I was always just, like, looking at it with, like, multiple lenses. And so, yeah, I would try to accomplish things, or I try to be, like, the best at something. Say, for example, like, playing the trumpet or whatever. I was like, I wasn't satisfied until I was first chair. And I tried to do that every year that I was in school. And luckily, I was able to do that for most of those years. But every time you're at a fish in an exceedingly larger pond, it becomes more difficult to do. There's always going to be somebody better than you out there, and so that is going to clash with that. Where there's a will, there's a way. And that's what I sort of learned as I got older, as I moved into different communities and different places around California, and that I wasn't always going to be the best anymore. So did I have the will? Like, was that important to me? Was being the best, like, actually important to me or was actually just doing the art right or just existing and just being. Finding joy in just the practice of it?
[23:18] Valerie: So when it comes to there's a will, that when there's a will, there's a way. And you saying, like, there can be a toxic aspect of it. Did you ever come up against your own toxicity?
[23:30] Abe: Yeah. Yeah. So it's really hard. And so now I would say yeah. So the still a challenge for me to figure out when to quit things or when to adjust my way of doing or way of being. I think that's just kind of one of the hardest things in life in general is learning, like, what, you know, when to stop doing something or when to start doing something else. And this is, like, you know, kind of in my face all the time as a business owner now, in that, like, there is no sort of end date or end sort of state to, like, business. Right. It's always a changing environment. It's always a changing thing with, like, potential clients or customers or your own skills or your own sort of schedule. So that balancing act of, like, you know, pursuing something to its natural end is always something that I'm, like, balancing or. Or dealing with. I'm trying to think of a specific example. Do you have a specific example of your own you didn't know when it was time to quit?
[24:43] Valerie: Okay, so I've been pondering this all day because this is something I'm going through right now, is that at, you know, the age of 36, I'm finally learning how to really say no and really putting my own needs first and also being more intentional with what direction I want to take things in my own life. And so in the past, I've been such a people pleaser, and I would stick it out for way too long for things that were not serving me. And, you know, whether that be, like, a job that wasn't paying me enough or, you know, even just like, a career path that was not the one that I wanted, but was the one that I kind of just landed in. It was a very, like, open energy, but at the same time, like, it lacks intention. And so I have recently just been dealing with, well, I'm willing to try things out a little bit, but I'm also much quicker now to redirect if I feel like it's not going to be a good fit. And sometimes this feels very rude for me to do. It feels very like, well, I said yes initially, but now I'm based off of some kind of feeling or some kind of like, just something's telling me it's not the right thing and it's draining my energy. And then I have to say, well, I don't think this is the right way to go, and so let's not do this anymore. And I've been getting a little bit faster at that, which is. Can be one. It's good because then I get to pivot faster and I get closer to where I want to go. But it also doesn't feel good to tell people no sometimes.
[26:27] Abe: Absolutely. I think that's. That is probably the one that I was trying to get to as well, like saying yes to things or saying yes to people versus saying no. And you've gotten wiser as you've gone on. I think that's what wisdom is, right? Is, like, knowing yourself and knowing yourself better. And I guess that was a big part for me. Why was I torturing myself by saying yes to all these social engagements or projects that I didn't want to do? And it was really funny. Like, at a film festival one time, I met John Cho, the actor John Cho, when he was still pretty early in his career, and I was so starstruck or whatever, me and my sketch comedy crew. But I remember one of the things that he told us when we met him, and it was weird. It was just him. I don't remember how we actually even ran into him, but I think he just stayed after a screening or whatever, and we're just like, oh, yo, that's Jon Cho. Like, let's talk to him.
[27:33] Valerie: Is that the White Castle?
[27:35] Abe: Yeah. Yeah. The Harold and Kumar and many, many other things. He's amazing. Star Trek searching. I think he's in searching, but he's in a lot of different things. He's awesome, amazing actor. But even early on in his career, he had done Harold and Kumar at that time, I think, and maybe a couple other things we asked him for advice, and advice is always one of those things. You could take it with a grain of salt. It may or may not work for you. But one of the things that he said that really stuck out to me when we were asking her for advice on how to be and exist in Hollywood and do it in a mindful way. He says, you never have to do anything you don't want to do. And it seems like a very sort of basic or a pretty straightforward thing to say. But if you think about it in terms of what Hollywood asks of an actor, right. And balancing those demands of, oh, maybe I should take this role because it's what's expected of me, or maybe I should take this role because I might not get another one. And he just, his sort of cool demeanor of, like, saying that thing, I'm like, I believe you, dude. Like, I know you still live by that. And if you look at the roles that he's taken, they're really good roles after Harold and Kumar. Like, he's showing off his acting chops, he's showing off his personality, but he's also taking on non traditional and not sort of stereotypical roles. And I always think back to that conversation and that piece of advice that he gave us back in the day. I'm like, dude, he's still living it. He's still making interesting choices with his career. And that really sort of informed me, too, from that time of, like, you know, if there's something that I don't want to do in my creative career or in my profession, I have to find why. It's not sort of resonating with me. I have to find out why. Like, my gut is telling me, like, I should not do this because there's a reason, right? When we listen to our bodies and our intuition, it's. There's a reason why we initially, you know, don't want to say yes, but. And then we say yes and we feel like **** right afterwards because we're now like, oh, now we're obligated to do something, or now we have to follow through on our words because our word is, you know, is bought or whatever. Finding that reasoning why and getting more in tune with yourself is, like, so important. And I'm glad that you're getting there. And you're. I would say you are there. Like, you know, you're just making choices that are more in line with you and what you want to do. And I think it's asking those hard questions about ourselves of, like, what matters to us, not just on a daily basis, but, like, whole. Like, how do we. What are our values? Like, what do we want to leave in our communities and to the people that matter to us? And I think if you use that as a measuring stick, like, those yes or no decisions or saying yes to things or saying no to things, like, becomes a lot easier once you have that measuring stick more in line with yourself.
[30:51] Valerie: Yeah, for sure. It is a very challenging and could be very painful process, especially if you have had a set of values before that you start to question later on. So that brings me on to the next question. What values and convictions guide your actions now?
[31:10] Abe: Yeah. So that's always changing. Right. But some of the things that I've mentioned that have stuck with me, like I mentioned earlier about Seth Godin surprising and delighting people, I like. I really like doing that. Sometimes that means me being sort of a chaos agent in my family or amongst my friends, because keeping people on their toes is sort of important to me. Or doing something non traditional, or being non traditional or non stereotypical in the way that I run my business or make art or design or direct. Just finding something that just, you look at it, you're just like, huh? I never thought about that before. So that value has stuck with me. Diversity is a big value. I really think diversity is the answer to a lot of our current ills, when we tend to think our opinion is 100% correct and that there's not any room for other opinions, I think, or points of view. I think we get in a lot of trouble because we don't see people as they are. We don't see people in this, like, really multifaceted way, and we start to put people in boxes. So I think having a diverse lens and exposing yourself to a lot of diverse sort of art and people and experiences is one of the things that matters a lot to me and a value that matters a lot to me. I think the third thing I'm just keep it to three is, I think we need to care more. I think we need to care more about the work that we put out. I think we need to care more about just our everyday interactions with people. One of the things that I love Long Beach, I love living here for many, many reasons. The food is incredible. The people are incredible. But the drivers down here, yo, like, the drivers down here are pretty bad. And I think about it all the time. In terms of when I see people crossing the street and there's a driver, just, like, not caring. Like, not caring. I'm like, we have traffic accidents in the city, and that's increasing, like, every year. Like, people getting hit by cars. And I think it's not sort of unique to Long beach, but I just see it here. Cause I'm. Every day, it's just, like, when people don't care about other people, that's how you move around in your car or on the street. Then it shows, and it sort of, like, makes me really angry. That's one of the things that makes me angry. A few things that make me angry is when people don't care about other people. And if we were just a little bit more thoughtful about how people literally and physically are moving around in the world and not thinking our existence is the center of the universe, I think we would just make this world a lot better of a place.
[34:07] Valerie: I highly agree with that. I think we're in a place in history where we're being very challenged, especially here in the United States, but everywhere, because we are more glued to our phones, and we're strapped for resources a lot of the time. And it's like, how do you care for people in a healthy way when a lot of what you see outside is anger?
[34:39] Abe: Yeah. Yeah. There's another term that I like, and I say a lot, like, resist the race to the bottom. Like, we're racing to the bottom in a lot of different areas in our lives. Right? Like, it's. It's easier not to care about people. It's easier not to, like, look both ways when you're, like, you know, running when your light turns green, when you're driving, it's easier to not follow up with something that you're gonna say you said you were gonna follow up with. Like, so a lot of that sort of, like, caring that I mentioned is about doing something that's actually more difficult than, like, the race to the bottom of, like, easiness. Like, doing the easy thing. Like, our culture and our technologies are making things easier, but at what cost? I think that cost is our humanity and our ability to be in communion with other people and build in a healthy way. And so, yeah, that race to the bottom is, like, really a pet peeve of mine. And you could see it in everything. Like, you could see it in people driving. You could see it in people's communication online. You could see it in what people choose to do with their time. And, yeah, just being more thoughtful and mindful and caring more. I think it's a harder thing, but I think it's the right thing.
[36:02] Valerie: How do you make sure that you continue to cultivate your humanity? I know this is a weird way to say it, but it's almost to the point where we need to actually think about that. Like, how do you maintain that ability to connect with a person? Because it's. Right now it really is that we're being pulled to not engage.
[36:23] Abe: Yeah. How do I continue to cultivate my humanity? I think you always have to surround yourself with reminders. Like, reminders of why you want to keep living. Right. That's part of it, too. It's just like, ugh, we're so strapped for resources or time or how do we get here? Like, if you spend any time with, like, little kids, like, that's a good reminder, right? Like, the way that little kids just find joy in just, like, such, the most simple or the most basic things, like blowing on a. What do you call those, the little flower things? Dandelions.
[37:01] Valerie: Oh, dandelions. Yes.
[37:03] Abe: Is that what it is? Yeah. Yeah. Just have a three year old niece, and she's the best thing on the world. And just spending time with her and just seeing how she just. Just loves splashing water or blowing dandelions or running around in a circle in a stupid, funny way, I want to always surround myself with those kinds of reminders. And for me, that's a lot of spending time with my family, spending time with my friends, but also spending time with my wife, who makes me laugh. I think laughter is just so important in my life as a reminder to that it's not that serious. Like, life isn't that serious in that, you know, we have to. Yeah, it's just not that serious.
[37:50] Valerie: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think, like, taking a step back and, like, going outside to get some fresh air.
[37:56] Abe: Yep.
[37:57] Valerie: All the stuff that we take for granted that is actually free.
[38:00] Abe: Yeah.
[38:01] Valerie: Yeah. We forget that it's there.
[38:03] Abe: We forget that nature's there. That's a really big one, too. Like, I'm lucky that I live close to the water and I'm able to just step outside and just go for a walk or go for a bike ride. So close to the water, water renews me. So just spending time by the water, being out in nature, going on a trip to the desert or the mountains, and then just listening to the sounds of the world and nature in that way, there's just so much noise in our day to day lives with all of our alerts and notifications and emails and, like, all these different things pulling on our attention. But, like, you know, once you spend time in nature, it starts to slow down again. And I think that does something to our bodies as well. I don't know if there's, like, studies on that or anything, but, like, I think it, you know, moderates us. And maybe, you know, going back to my music analogy, maybe it puts us back in rhythm with everything else around us in ways that maybe our technology does not, you know, so, like, you know, when you need to catch a beat, like, go into nature.
[39:10] Valerie: Yeah. What is the hardest thing you've ever done?
[39:15] Abe: Oof. What is the hardest thing I've ever done? Any area.
[39:22] Valerie: Yeah.
[39:25] Abe: Probably she might not like this, but, like, getting married, I think it's, I mean, in the very, very best way, getting married to me was like, oh, I'm not in this for myself anymore. Like, I can't be, like, this selfish ******* that I've been. Like, I'm in a relationship, but I'm also in a partnership with somebody that I'm accountable to in ways that I have never been to myself. So when I would let myself off the hook in the past for, like, oh, you know, I don't need to follow up with my mom. When she asked me a question, like, last week, like, she's good, you know, like, my wife would be like, oh, have you talked to your mom yet? Like, have you, have you asked her this? Like, and it's not, like, it is not, like, an annoying thing. It's like a checks and balances kind of thing where, like, you know, she makes me better in so many ways, and it's difficult. Like, it's just a constant process. And, yeah, I haven't, I'm like, you. I haven't gotten married. I haven't been married, like, like, too long. We got married 2020 during the pandemic. And just since then, like, I thought, I thought it would be a continuation of, like, our relationship because we've been, we were together, like, years before we got married. I thought it'd just be a natural sort of continuation of how easy and, like, carefree and everything it was. But there's something about, like, when you commit to, you know, someone, a partner, whether they be a partner or, you know, having a kid, like, it changes the game. Like, it completely changes the game where you're just like, yo, like, everything that I was doing, it was good and all, but, like, now I feel like I could take it to the next level because I have somebody that has my back. I have somebody that, like, can. Can support me in ways that, like, I wasn't even looking at. Like, I wasn't even, like, expecting or whatever. So that was both the biggest surprise and sort of the biggest. The hardest thing I would say that I've done.
[41:32] Valerie: You know, it's interesting, because when we started off this conversation, we were talking about, like, multi hyphenate and multipotential. It's like we. When we're single, building up all of these identities is fun. It's a game, and, like, it's like, you can collect. Right. And kind of maintain, too. And then I think getting married, it's like, all of a sudden, you kind of have to look at how to be responsible in a way that you can't go, I guess, full on, 100% wild, which is in the past, I've done that, too. Just fly this way and then do this stuff over here. And honestly, I'm still trying to rein myself in. Not in a. Like, it's not a good or bad, even. I wouldn't say it's like that. It's just different.
[42:28] Abe: Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. It's not a good or bad at all. Like, and I wouldn't even say, well, maybe it is for certain other people's marriages, but in my own personal, it's not a contracting thing. Like, it's not a contracting sort of change. It's more of an expanding change. And I'm like, oh, I'm expanding in ways that I thought I didn't have it in me. I didn't think I would be able to expand in this way. But just growing with someone and adapting and learning on a day to day basis, you can't be on your bullshit anymore, and that is a great thing. And I know it's not like that for every relationship, but for the ones that are more power to you, I'll tell everybody else. I see it now. Yeah.
[43:21] Valerie: Yeah. Okay. So that comes to the next question, which is somewhat similar. It's like, are there any problems? And the reason why I'm asking this is because you seem to be such a problem solver. Are there any problems that have persisted and that you struggle with solving to this day?
[43:36] Abe: Yes. I do like to consider myself a problem solver. That can also be a toxic sort of trait to a lot of sort of immigrant kids and Asian Americans. American kids. But, you know, as a problem solver for, say, business problems and the types of business problems I solve for my clients, I guess one thing that I always have to come to terms with, say, like, I'm doing some consulting or I'm helping somebody with their marketing. I can only give them so much. Sort of like, oh, like, I could see the problem. I could see this is exactly how to solve it. Like, I know how you can get out of this mess that you're in or the situation that you're in and, like, have success. I could say that, and I could lay out the entire plan or strategy on how they specifically and uniquely can do it. And then once I give them that plan, it's still up to them to, like, execute it and still up to them to, like, take the action to follow through. And I guess the hard part for me as a problem solver is, like, like, really being patient with the people that I work with, but also understanding that, like, everyone comes from a very specific place. Everyone has their own gifts and abilities, but also their own trauma. Right? Like, we don't. I mean, in certain businesses, we talk about, like, you know, the trauma that we sort of live with on a day to day basis. But, like, in a lot of other sort of business settings, we kind of leave that to the side. We think people are these, like, like, straightforward avatars of, say, I am Ayurveda practitioner, or I own a socket shop, or I own the restaurant that opened last Monday that is bringing all of these influencers into town and foodies and everything. We try to put people in this box, but people are really multifaceted. And so really hard part for me as a problem solver is, like, really taking that into account and, like, looking at people in a holistic sense and looking at other business owners and some of my clients in a really holistic sense of, like, oh, like, it's very simple to me as a problem solver how you could solve this problem in your business, but, like, you're not just running your business, you're running your life as well. And you might have kids or you might have pulls on your schedule or your. Your attention. That kind of is an obstacle for that plan or that strategy that we laid out. So I think just being more patient with people and just being, like, taking into account, like, hey, we are whole people. We are multifaceted people running businesses or running ventures or doing hobbies or whatever, and giving people a little bit more, I guess the word anomaly for is not slack. What is it? A little bit more grace. There you go. Yeah. Giving people a little bit more grace. I hope that people are doing that to me. I've definitely gotten grace for my shortcomings in different ways. And so how can I offer that to other people when we're sort of, sort of being wired to, especially on social media, of presenting this perfect picture of our business or perfect picture of our lives? It's not, it's ugly, it's messy. And I think we should talk about that more and definitely move around in that way and give grace to people and their different sort of life setups.
[47:18] Valerie: Beautifully said. And I'm really glad that you mentioned the trauma piece, too. I don't think people realize that, especially in business, the reason why you're maybe stuck at a certain place has a lot to actually do with you. I didn't realize this when I first started doing business. I didn't think I would have to deal with being a business owner, and I kind of, like, got on the train way late. But the fact that most of my problems in growing my business have everything to do with my perception of myself and my self doubt and just, and a lot of my history. So it's very, very clear to me that when you deal with businesses, at the end of the day, especially the small ones, you're dealing a lot with the human factor.
[48:10] Abe: Yeah, yeah. And you're exactly right. That human factor is going to be the limiting factor in a lot of this desired business growth or desired results that you think, like, oh, I'm gonna start a business and I'm gonna have this much money by the end of year. And, like, you think it's just a straight line, but no, like, it has to go in you and around you and through you. Your business has to do that. It has to, it has to sort of flow through you. And I think when we read sort of success stories on the Internet and we see people posting about, oh, my business made this much money or whatever, like, we're denying that other part and we're not being real about that other part. And like, oh, tell me, tell me about the stuff that, like, you are keeping. Like, tell me about the stuff that, you know, prevented you from going from your $0 to your first, like, you know, thousand dollars in your bank account, your business bank account, because it's not a straight line. It's a very, very zigzag line. And, yeah, like, that probably is the second hardest thing that I've done in my lifetime is, like, become a business owner. And I've been doing it for a while now, and I love it. Like, I love the, the freedom that it gives me in a lot of different areas and of my life. And, you know, being able to live out my values in a way that, you know, I don't have to water down. Like, I own everything. But yes, on the flip side, you own everything. Like, you own all the mistakes. You own all the. The things you didn't do. Right. But, you know, if. If you want to know yourself, like, become a business owner, because you'll learn right quick that, you know, it's a lot harder than it looks from the outside.
[49:55] Valerie: Okay, so we're going to close out with this question. I think it's a great one to close out with is because you're not only a business owner yourself, but you advise business owners. What would you, if you could give any piece of advice to someone who is stuck in their own ****, right. What would be the best thing you.
[50:17] Abe: Can tell them to let go. And that's a hard thing to do. And it's different for every person. It's different for every business owner. But there are certain things that you're holding onto, and this is unique to you. There are certain things that you're holding onto and believing to be true that are not true. And that, I guess, is the hardest thing. And that's something that I like to work with other small business owners on to figure that out. And it's usually, it's not around, like, everything in business. It's usually around, like, creative or marketing or video. But figuring that out, like, what you need to let go of, like, and unweigh you down is really important, I think, to get to that next level. And it's going to be different for every person.
[51:11] Valerie: Cool. Okay, thanks. I hope that is a piece of information to meditate on, because that is something that we can all just kind of allow to sink in. It is a pondering piece. So I am going to go ahead, and I will ponder that, too. Thank you so much for being on today, Abe. I've learned a lot and I've had a lot of fun.
[51:32] Abe: Fun. Thanks, Valerie. Thanks for having me on, and thanks for playing.
[51:37] Valerie: Awesome. All right, we'll see you next time. Peace.
