[00:00] Valerie: Rise, renew, reconnect. Welcome to from the Ashes, a podcast where every story ignites hope and healing.
[00:08] Annett: Shut the fire. In the darkest night of Phoenix Burns. It's ready for flight. Shadows may come try to tear you apart, but you're the thing that ignites your heart.
[00:22] Valerie: All right, everyone, so today I have my friend Annette bone here. I am super honored to have her in my presence doing this podcast. I have known Annette for about ten years now, and when I met her, it was at a dance studio called Boogie Zone that's now called Epicenter arts. And I feel like probably it was either the beginning or in the midst of your personal transformation, or at least the latest iteration of that, perhaps.
[00:52] Annett: Yes.
[00:53] Valerie: Yeah. So I have so many questions to ask you and a lot to dig into, so let's get started. But first off, thank you so much for being here.
[01:02] Annett: I'm so happy to be here. Thank you so much.
[01:05] Valerie: You know, I haven't talked to you a lot for the past ten years. What I have seen is mostly on social media, and I know that at some point, you started a podcast called Dancepreneur. You've changed dramatically. Physically, you look completely different from when I first met you. And the way that you've carried yourself has made a dramatic shift. So when things like that happen, when I see people change dramatically, I know that there is always a story behind it. So the first thing I'd like to dig into is for you to share your from the ashes story.
[01:42] Annett: Ooh, from the ashes. First of all, what a great name for a podcast, and thank you, Val, for just having this platform. I know you're going to just have so many wonderful stories to share in the, in the future as well. From the ashes. I would say the pivotal point for me was when I decided to come back to dance, my first love after a 20 plus year hiatus. So I got my degree in dance. I started late, actually, I started when I was 13, at least, in jazz and ballet. And then I was, you know, I came from a small island. There wasn't a lot there. But long story short on that part, I went to college to study dance at UC Irvine. And once I got my degree, I quit immediately because I couldn't take the audition process. My self image couldn't handle the rejection. It would take me days, like, I would be crying. Like, it was so dramatic. I think about it now, I'm like, oh, my gosh, that's so, like, you know, hindsight is always like, you always get this bigger picture, right? So I quit immediately, and also, I was feeling this pressure of, okay, I don't know how I'm going to support myself. No. At that time, I mean, this is gonna tell you my age. I mean, that was back in 1993, and so things were different. We didn't, you know, social media wasn't what it was today. The opportunities were just, and, you know, I can't necessarily blame it on that because it was just my own internal war that I was fighting and allowing others and situations to dictate how I looked at myself and also what I thought I could do. And so I quit completely, and I went into the corporate world with, well, corporate. In the beginning, I wouldn't say that I packed dental parts and dental things in boxes to ship out. So that wasn't really corporate. But I worked for a big lab and I was very unhappy. And I got involved in a business model which I thought was going to be the savior of my finances. And it just, it actually turned out to be quite a toxic mentor coach type relationship. Really appreciate good mentorship and coaches now because I know what it's like to have ones that are very manipulative and toxic. I didn't know that at the time. I thought, okay, there's something wrong with me, so I got to change. And so I thought, oh, if I get involved in this business model, then I'll make all this money, and then I can maybe start dancing again, even though I'm afraid of auditions and stuff. So the pivotal point was, was 2014 when we met near, when we met, when I decided to come back to dance because my health was deteriorating, had a hard time climbing up a set of stairs. And I thought, oh, my gosh, I'm too young to be, like, huffing and puffing just for a set of stairs. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I gotta get it together. Because even before, just to give a point of reference, I was going through a lot of anxiety and depression and just really just, I just wasn't myself. And so it's funny, I was at a, I don't know if you remember this place. I don't know if it's even there anymore. It's down on the street from Boogie zone, and it's a shave ice place at that time. It's right by Ralph's. I don't know if you remember if, anyway, that Ralph's guy, that shopping center. And so I just happened to be there one summer. I wasn't familiar with Torrance. I was living in Long beach at that time and just happened to be there and there was a display on the tv, and it said all levels, all styles of dance classes. That was boogiezone. Since then, I don't know if they've ever done that ad, but I thought, oh, my gosh, maybe I can just come back to dance and just get my health back and learn some choreography. I just want to be in the back of the class and not be seen, really, and just kind of move and stuff. So I went to the studio, my first class. I still remember the front desk, the people that were working the front desk, and I was like, oh, my gosh, you know, I have not been dancing for over two decades, and I'm kind of, you know, uncomfortable. And they put me at ease. Like, that was the best thing that could have happened for me. If it was any other way, I'd be. I don't know. I don't know how I would have handled it. But I remember walking up to the vision room. I don't know what it's called now.
[05:51] Valerie: It's still vision.
[05:52] Annett: It's still vision. I went up to the room and just the smell of the wood and the mirrors and seeing the cracks, you know, the cracks that happen over time in the wood and looking out the window, and I'm like, I felt so at home. Like, I'm like, okay, here we go. I know I'm here for my health, but I just felt. And so one class a week turned into a couple classes a week to a couple classes a day, several times a week. So I went at. I started getting at it. And so that was the pivotal point, was coming back to dance after a 20 year hiatus to, first of all, to get my health back. And then I started working with a trainer, and she said, well, two different trainers. And she was like, oh, you're ready to perform again. I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no. I'm never, ever, ever performing again. I gave that no. And she goes, no, you're ready. You need to do it. You need to push yourself. And I'm like, but I need to lose 15 more pounds. So that whole conditional, like. And she said, no, no, you're. And I trusted her. So I'm like, okay, I'm overcoming my fears one step at a time. I, you know, I'm back in dance feeling. Feeling great. At least I'm moving. Feeling kind of still awkward and uncomfortable, but still feeling at home, you know? And then my other trainer, he was like, oh, my gosh, we got to condition you. So a lot of our time was spent. Like, he gave me exercises that I would do in the morning. And it was almost like, again, being in a master's program. Cause he gave me assignments to read. I had to write papers. Like, he treated me like I was in grouchy MFA in dance, which I love. But the physical part of it was, I have not gone through conditioning like that. And that's what elevated things started changing quite rapidly. Well, there was another part of that which we'll get to, but so coming back to dance, one thing, performing after 20 years and performing solo, of all things, I'm like, I can't even hide behind people. I'm gonna be, like, out in front, you know, solo. And I was shocked about, like, first of all, like, allowing myself to, like, agree to just kind of, you know, trust my trainers and stuff. But I felt like, oh, my gosh, I really love this. I miss performing. But I was really kind of scared to admit that because back then with the, you know, it took me back to the audition process of, you know, I'm not good enough. I don't look like I, you know, I don't fit the prototype of a particular type of dancer. My body will never look like even, you know, I just, you know, all the comparisons and, like, all that, I was like, okay, dude, I don't want it even, like, saying I'm a dancer. For a while, I was like, it just feels like not me, you know, like, it feels like me, but it doesn't. Like, I. Because I didn't feel like I checked the boxes off of what a dancer is supposed to be. Right? So after that. After that first performance and feeling that, oh, my gosh, this is. I can. Wow, I love this. What if I put myself back in the audition process? What will my mindset be like? And so that whole process of, okay, I don't want to have any more regrets. I'm going to push. I'm going to put myself in uncomfortable positions, uncomfortable situations to see how I handle it and how I can grow from it. So from there, I went to my first audition in over 20 years. Of course, I didn't get it. I was probably. And I kind of fumbled, and it was a modern, contemporary audition. I felt good. But going in, I'm like, okay, no matter what happens, I can say I did it. I kept my word to myself, and no matter. And I'll feel good about it. And I felt amazing, even though I knew. I'm like, oh, I mean, if I got picked, great, but I probably won't. And then from there, I started going to different things. Getting lots of different nos. Still getting a lot of nos for different things. I'm submitting. I've submitted for. So, like, I've gotten more no's in the. Since coming back to dance than I ever did in my twenties and being able to handle it in a. In a very healthy, constructive way. So I hope I've answered. Those are the pivotal points, though. Coming back to dance, choosing to put myself in uncomfortable situations, and from that, getting. Gaining the confidence and courage, like, to start the podcast, to do speaking engagements, to do other different things that push me, that make me uncomfortable.
[10:06] Valerie: Yes. This is all wonderful. And I have to say that I really relate to the nervous breakdowns around auditioning. I cannot tell you how horrible it was for me. And the way that I coped with it was by just saying, I don't want to do it. I'm I'm above all of this, and I just want to dance for the art of it, you know? And it just. It really messed with me. And what I realized many, many years later was how low my self esteem was and how debilitating my self image was. And I never even thought about it that way, but I just never thought myself to be. Be worthy. And this idea of, like, just something in you seemed to have decided that hearing no was worth, like, the. The pain of hearing no was worth the risk, right. Well, my question is, like, how has, has self esteem transformed for you? How have you worked through that? Was it just that decision, or were there other things that you had to work on?
[11:21] Annett: Oh, I'm such a. Back then, back, like, then, like, way back then, I used to be really attracted to positive quotes. Like, I'd see quotes, like, in high school, I'd see different things. I mean, this was way, way back in books, like, not online, Internet wasn't around. And I'd always be like, oh, gosh, that sounds really cool. I really resonate with that. But I just didn't know really what to do with it. And then I started reading and following different thought leaders and resonate it. Just, that stuff resonates with me because I came from such a negative background. My family background was quite negative. And so it was, you know, it's taken years and years of really being, first of all, that, like, what you're talking about, the awareness, like, I didn't, I wasn't aware how negative I was. Like, even in college, toward. Toward the end, I think if I was more positive, maybe it would have been a better experience instead of me being, you know, like, I really played the victim card very well. I hate it. I hated to admit that in the beginning, but I'm like, oh gosh, I feel sorry for myself and I need to, you know, I don't know how to pick myself up. And so once I started digging into the science behind, I don't even recall it, positive mental attitude, it's just the really taking ownership of how you're processing your thoughts and your, and how does that translate to your daily actions and your habits and stuff? I started, once I started focusing on that, especially in terms of the physical stuff with, I tried different and I don't even want to call them diets, like eating protocols and certain things worked for a while and then I would get, I would get kind of stuck and then I'd be like, okay, what do I need to change? And until I changed the internal dialogue of how I looked at myself and how I looked at my relationship with food, that's when things started really, really picking up without too much. And so, yeah, it was again the pivotal point of coming back to dance. And all the decisions that supported that is what propelled and progressed all the changes that happened. And some, you know, I made a lot of mistakes, like with food things. I made a lot of mistakes in terms of how I approached things. I think I would have been, I thought I was pretty strategic, but I think I could have been more strategic so I wouldn't have wasted time on certain things. So, yeah, a lot of internal work for sure. And finding yoga too.
[13:43] Valerie: Yeah.
[13:44] Annett: Oh, well, yeah, which is also internal. Which is also internal as well as, you know.
[13:49] Valerie: Yeah, I'm all about the internal work and so I love to dig into all this stuff. So you talk about kind of like making mistakes with the protocols that you did and like learning how to be more strategic with your approaches. Right. And I can give an example of how I also kind of fell into that pattern is like I was looking for stuff to fix myself and so I would get overly attached to a method. It would get me to certain, and then I would plateau. Yeah. So what, like, how did that present for you? Like, where did you see yourself plateauing and how did you get out of it?
[14:25] Annett: Well, the first thing was with you know who Tim Ferriss is, right? I love his stuff, but, yeah, Tim Ferriss. So he has this, this book called for our body and then his whole protocol about protein and then on, and then it's not only common with him, but a lot of fitness, wellness. Wellness people call it like having cheat days and stuff like that. So I did do that, and that worked. But I. But it. But then something. Just. The wording of cheating, like food is cheating, you know, like, having an apple is cheating, you know, like, no, it's. You know, I had to change the wording around different foods, so that was the first thing. So it worked for a while. Then changing the words, like, no, not, you know, if I want to have fruit, I'm gonna have fruit. I'm gonna enjoy it and appreciate the fact that I have food, you know, like, I have something that is, like, pure and, like, good, and I'm not. Yes, it has natural sugars, so what, you know, and so stuff like that. So it was. It was very. And then I stopped tracking, too. There was a point where I was tracking quite well, and I really believe in tracking. To see, I mean, you got to have data, right, to see what's, you know, what's the sticking point some, you know, and I'm on and off with data, too. I'm not perfect at it. And so I had stopped tracking, and then I gained, and I hated going by, like, the scale, so I went more by how I felt and, like, the way my clothes fit and how was I dancing more than anything. The whole point was, I'm doing this because I want to move better, I want to feel better, and I want to move better, whatever that means. So if that means I have a, you know, I don't have time, and I have a protein bar between rehearsals, so be it. I can't cook any. Maybe I can plan a little bit better. And then I discovered, also through yoga, I discovered ayurveda, which I know that you are an expert at, and that totally opened up another perspective for me. And so being able, I think, constantly educating yourself, knowing that one size doesn't fit all, and certain things work for certain people, and there's no absolutes. Everything is so nuanced. And I used to think everything had to be black and white with this. Oh, no carbs, no, this. No, that's the. As strict as I like being, and I like building discipline and habits, there's something that mentally and internally, for me, just wasn't sitting right. And then also that awareness of, oh, I can listen to myself. Like, I do have insight, and that's important. You know, our bodies are designed, you know, we've been this God given thing stuff, you know, all the gifts inside and all this stuff. It's okay to use. It's okay to honor that and to use that. And there's nothing wrong. I had to keep. Okay. There's nothing wrong with me. I'm just figuring it out. Like, I had to constantly coach myself, too, before I found mentors and coaches that I trusted. I had to. I had to do it all myself for myself, you know? So, yeah, lots, lots of experimentation. I looked at everything as, okay, this is an experiment. Give it some time. If it works, if it doesn't, okay, what can I learn from it?
[17:24] Valerie: Yeah. And I love. I love experimentation. That's why I do love Tim Ferriss, even though some of his stuff can be, like, hit or miss. But, like, the idea that you are allowed to explore for yourself what works for you is so valuable. And the importance of listening to your intuition and honoring it is far more important than following, let's say, like, by the book, ayurveda or yoga or anything, even though they're all wonderful. Right? So let's dig into the yoga a little bit. I know that you've gotten into that in some depth. So how did it first start for you? Like, why did you decide to pursue it?
[18:05] Annett: Oh, my gosh. A mutual friend of ours from boogiezone, she. I was having trouble with my knee because, you know, I was much heavier coming back to dance, increasing my activity. So there was a little bit of stress on the body, of course, and trying to work through that. And so I was having challenges with my knees. And she's like, have you thought about trying yoga? And I thought, no, I don't want to get into that spiritual. Like, I don't know about that. I was still kind of like, it looks interesting, but no, I don't know. But then I thought, okay, be open to it. Again, another experiment. So my first class was not too far from when I started dance again was a 90 minutes bikram class. My first. Yeah, that's intense. Like, for your first yoga class, a 90 minutes crazy hot bikram class. But I thought, this is kind of interesting. First of all, how come the teacher's not demoing? Because, you know, because you're used to dance, right? You're used to the teacher showing you the choreo and all that kind of stuff. And so the teacher's walking around, I don't know, the postures. I'm kind of watching because you know how bikram is. So, you know, it's predictable, it's sequenced, and you know what's coming up. I mean, I was new, so I didn't know what was coming up, but just kind of watching, you know, in dance, you're cut, you get from the dance background, you're kind of watching and stuff. And so I was hooked. I was like, okay, so I tried different studios. I tried different forms. I pretty much like every form that I've tried. Kundalini, Ashtanga. At one point, I really wanted to focus on Ashitanga, and I might still want to do that. I teach a very strong vinyasa class right now in my teaching, but in Bikram, I thought, okay, where are those push up things? You know, Chaturanga's? I'm like, I want to learn how to do the push ups and the back bends and, like, I want to learn how to invert and stand on my head and stuff like that. And when I discovered Vinyasa, and I also obviously worked through that. And then I remember taking, even taking Iyengar. And I thought. And the teacher, it was interesting. It was at this house. I don't know if it was during COVID or not. No, it was way before that because Covid was recent, sort of. But I remember being corrected on every posture. Like, you know, how particular it is, right. And I thought, what am I. Am I wrong on all the, like, am I really doing it wrong? But then I. Then I thought, okay, okay. I like correction, I like feedback. I like, you know, hands on assists and stuff like that. So. So that's how it started is because it was to nurse, nurse an injury from dance. And instead, I mean, it helped that, but also it opened my eyes to the philosophy behind yoga, the different forms of yoga, the breathing, the pranayama, which is amazing. AyurvEda, which, again, totally blew my mind as well. And knowing that this all comes from years and, like, way, way, way back, like, the history of it, it's not just this thing that came 200. Well, 100 years ago or something, right? It's, like, rooted in, like, way, way back. And so I. And I never thought. And even in the beginning, I would have people say, oh, do you teach yoga? Or have you thought about teaching yoga and just, like, with dance? Oh, no, I never want to teach yoga. I have no interest in teaching yoga. I just wanted to use it for my practice. And so a few years ago, I went through my 200 hours yoga teacher training, and that was great. And then it just kind of went from there. And so I teach now. And so you just never know. You gotta be open, right? You never. And I've learned that you never say never because I said I would never perform. I would never go to an audition, I would never dance again, never teach yoga. And look at it. Look at me now. So funny.
[21:43] Valerie: Yeah. I have to ask then, because, you know, I left dance for a while, but relative to 20 years, it's not that long. And what was it like for you to stop abruptly? Did it, did you grieve? Did you, what process was it?
[22:04] Annett: I, you know, looking back now that you asked that question, I probably grieved in a way that didn't seem obvious, maybe pushing it down. I was. I felt like I was watching dance from the, like, from the sidelines, which I was, because at that time. During that time, I was like, watch, this is when all the shows were starting to come up. So you think you can dance dancing with the Stars? And I'd keep up on all that stuff, like, and I'd be excited to watch it. And then I would also. One thing that was really the grieving, now that you brought that up. I remember when I graduated and few of my classmates, they were already going onto companies and traveling, and I saw one of my classmates in several movies that. And I was, like, bummed. I'm like, cool, but cool. That's not me. Like, okay. And I was, you know, jealous, and I thought, well, she obviously went for it. I'm kind of like, I don't fit that, you know? And then all that started coming, you know, I started getting down my down. And so I was up on all the dance movies. Like, but nowadays, like, I. I don't remember the last dance movie I've watched. I don't. I, like, I'm not keeping up on all that stuff, but I'm doing the stuff, which is different, you know? So, yeah, the grieving process was kind of, like, kind of, oh, it's just trying to talk myself of, oh, I don't, you know, it's not for me. I don't love it anymore. That was just a little part of my life, and I'm not cut out for that. And. And other people. It's for other people. And I need to be looking at what's going to be stable and secure and what's. What's. You know, it's not. So talking the constant, like, trying to convince myself that was. I think that was my form of grieving.
[23:43] Valerie: So what I hear also is there was some kind of, maybe, like, a little bit of imposter syndrome right after leaving. So. And this I've done to myself so many times where it's like, oh, I've danced for 30 years, but I haven't danced in the past year. I'm not a dancer anymore or whatever, or even just, like, with my education, like, I went to school for psychology, but I didn't pursue it. So I have no idea about psychology anymore. And it's just, like, immediately after I've decided I'm not that, it's almost like I'm nothing, you know, and I don't have the qualifications, even though I spent so many years doing whatever it was. What would you say to someone like me who struggles with that kind of, like, constant, like, need almost to feel like I have to be in it all the time in order to qualify as that?
[24:36] Annett: Oh, gosh, we're so, you know, as artists, we are so multifaceted and we feel all the things. Right. So I would say, well, what? First thing I would say is, well, what is it that you want? Like, what is it that you want and really sit with those feelings. Like, I think a lot of times we want to bury, like, what I did, too. We just want to bury and, like, have it go away. And, yeah, I feel these things, but I think it's important to kind of go head on, confront them. And so I, you know, I, I'm very systematic now just because now I coach, I coach individuals and couples. So we, you know, this is kind of a, you know, this would be a situation where we would have, like, a coaching session. Right. I know you do as well. So, so a lot of it is, let's, you know, talking through the feelings of, okay, what, so what doesn't. And what the opposite is. Well, what, okay, you feel like an imposter. You feel like you're not qualified. So what does a qualified person feel like? What do they look? What do you know? What is your impression? What is your, and kind of see, where can you kind of meet in the middle? Because sometimes it's, it's easy. It's so easy on the other side to say, well, just think this. Just do this. But it's, you know, there's other intermediate steps on the way where you can get some victories and get some, really get to sit with. Okay. You know, I do have a psy, you know, I got all a's in my psychology education that's worth something. Like really going back and counting the wins, too. Like, I started doing this years ago when I was, when I started journaling regularly of really affirming even the smallest wins. So I take my clients through that as well. Like, let's take inventory of your gifts and let's take inventory of your wins. And when you think you don't know and when you think you work I'm going to keep pushing you to keep going. Like I'm here to keep, keep. We can be in this stream of consciousness where it can come up. It's in there. It's in there. So I'm facilitating that process of let's. Okay. You're feeling like this. Feelings are fleeting anyway. For the first of all, it's not. Feelings are not permanent. So you're feeling like an imposter. You're not going to feel like this forever. But let's get to the root. Let's take inventory of all the good things, because there are, because you have done all these things, and let's see what that looks like moving forward. Yeah, in a nutshell, that's what I would do.
[27:06] Valerie: Thank you. So then to follow up with that and just the discussion of how you said, you know, you get more no's now than you ever have. And what stops a lot of people is the fear of being rejected. And, you know, I gotta admit, this is something that I deal with all the time, and I know that I could be asking for more, but sometimes the anticipation of no will stop me. Right. What was that like for you in the beginning when you started to get more nos? And how did you overcome kind of that icky feeling of being rejected all the time?
[27:46] Annett: Such a great question. I went to my, why? Why am I putting myself through these scenarios that used to devastate me? And so why? Because I didn't want to have any more regrets of giving up. I didn't want to be, you know, looking back and going, gosh, I, what if, what if I did go? What would have happened? Like I always looked at, okay, and this is with anything, even other than auditions, if. If I do it, how am I going to feel? If I don't do it, how am I going to feel? I ask myself a lot of these questions, right? And I always thought, okay, the nos are just going to get me closer to a yes. And the nos are just not meant for me for whatever reason. Like, it just, I'm not a fit, whatever. But that's okay. I'm not. I mean, we're not for everybody, right? So the nos. Number one, remembering my why. Number two, the nos are getting me closer to a better yes. And number three, I also think about, do you know who the actor Mark Ruffalo is?
[28:46] Valerie: Yes. Yeah.
[28:47] Annett: He, if I, if I'm remembering correctly, I always think about him when I, when things, when I'm even questioning, when I'm a little activated. I think he's gotten like, he got 600 no's before he got his first yes. How many people would. How many people stop at ten? How many people stop at five? I mean, you know what I mean? How many people stop at 100? 600? Like, I always think about him particularly because I'm like, wow, he could. He's, he's. And he probably had people say to him, well, why. Why do you keep doing that? You keep getting no's. Why are you, you know, why are you putting yourself through that? But getting no's builds character. It really. And it gives you such good information. Like, you know, I. So funny we're talking about this because I just got two no's for two festivals. Just actually yesterday. This happened yesterday. Quite. It's funny that we're talking about it. And I thought, okay, these are the two same submissions that I've. I've sent the same submission for these last couple festivals. They all been no, what can I. You know, what is it about, okay, it's not a fit, obviously. I wonder if there's something I can change. Maybe there's different parts of the footage I can show on the video. Maybe the wording on my copy is. Needs to be tightened up. So it gets me thinking of, okay, what can I do better? But not before. It would be from like, oh, gosh, something's wrong with me now. It's from a informational standpoint of, okay, what can. A very inquisitive approach versus a judgmental approach. And I think that's. It's such a. It's so much healthier. It's such a much healthier place to come from. Cause I think, as I think, especially living in LA, I think there's a place for everybody. There's so many different artistic outlets and avenues and people. I mean, it's such a melting pot as it is. So many different art forms, different collaborations that can happen. I think there's a place for everyone. And it's exciting to think about it that way versus what I used to think. I don't look like this commercial dancer. I don't fit into this kind of world. I, you know, and then also for a long time, too, I thought, okay, I can. It was hard for me to say that I'm a dancer, an artist, because I didn't have certain credits to my name. Like, we talked about the imposter syndrome. I have all these friends that dance for Chris Brown and Usher and, you know, been on tour with these people, and I'm like, I can't say that, but does that make me less of an artist? I had to, I had to sit with that do, am I less of a person because I don't. Also in, also in terms of the physicality, am I less of a person because I can't do 32 fuete turns because I haven't nailed my Alistair contems yet? You know, like stuff like that. I, it's so, you know, I, talking about it now, I'm like, it's kind of silly. But you know what? It's, it's very real, too, isn't because we want to be better. We want to be, we want to be better. And sometimes we can go the end of imposter or comparison or getting down or we can go to the other end of. Okay, let me assess. What is it that I'm trying to do? What's important to me? What do I want my art to express? What do I stand for? And I don't think a lot of people take the time to sit with that because some of it can be very uncomfortable.
[31:55] Valerie: Yeah. Yeah. And there's, you know, I think for a lot of people, it's, there is a outer authority or body saying, like, this is where you should be at. And this is what ballet dancer looks like. This is what a hip hop dancer looks like. This is what competency they should have. Right. And so, like, developing yourself as an artist is different than developing yourself kind of as a career dancer, I guess, in the sense, like there are crossovers and everything. But like, to really be your own artist, you also really get to choose yourself.
[32:30] Annett: Yes.
[32:31] Valerie: Yeah. As a person, how did you arrive at that point of like, I'm going to do my art my way?
[32:39] Annett: I love that question. I saw. I always talk about this performance when I started the podcast. This was actually, I think, the first show that I reviewed for the, for my podcast, and it was at the Odyssey Theater. I don't know if you've been there. It's an old, old theater. And there was this couple that did a physical theater performance. I didn't really know what physical theater was, and I was like, oh, my gosh, this is dance, this is movement. And they didn't do fuetes. They weren't doing choreo. They weren't like, but it was so captivating. And it got me to ask more questions afterwards. And even the audience, like, you could hear the talking. Like, it wasn't, like, it wasn't the dance, like a competition performance. It wasn't anything like that. That I do love. I love all of that, too. But there was something about just the physical. Like, the way she flew into his arms, like, she ran and she threw herself at him. Like, stuff. Like, they were dancing in dirt and all these elements, and I'm like, oh, that would be kind of fun to take dirt and have it on you and move around and stuff like that. So I thought, God, dance can be this. Art can be this. Like, it doesn't have to look so presented. Like, I love that stuff, too, but it doesn't have to look, like, perfect. From that time on, I thought, oh, wow. Like, I. There is. I, like, I can do this kind of stuff, and I can still have other stuff informed that, and I can collaborate and use, like, props. And, like, it was. It opened. It totally opened my eyes. And from there, I was like, that's when I started looking into other modalities of movement, too, like Alexander technique and other somatic stuff and. And contact improv and capoeira, and. Well, I used to want to do Capoetta a lot. I haven't. I took one class, but, like, it made me want to even delve deeper into other movement approaches, like, you know, gyrotonics, which I want to do that, too. I want to try. I want to learn the equipment. I come from a pilates background, from dance, from. From a classical Pilates background. We had to take classical pilates in dance for college, but it got me curious about just, you know, qigong and tai chi and, like, incorporating that into that to your art. Like, either whether the movement informs the art or maybe the approach informs the art, and then also dancing with a group called Gunita Collective, which I started with before the pandemic and the process that I think you. You know Noelle, right? I think you and Noelle are friends. So Noelle. Oh, my gosh. Just opened my eyes, and all the dancers, like, they all come. I always say, like, oh, my gosh, I'm dancing with them because they're all so well versed in whacking and punking and popping and, like, I'm not, you know, and I'm just, like, the other person. And it's just funny when I think about that. But the process that we went through to create our. To create our works was, like, I never really gone through that before. Like, the time we took that, it was very much about the process, and I think that made the performance, the presentation that much richer. And I thought, this can be dance. This can be dance, and it's okay. It doesn't have to be, like, always. 5678. It could be, like, one, two, three, whatever. Five and six. And, no, we're not doing that. You know, and the music is dissonant, and there's no music and the sound is dissonant, and that's still art. So all these experiences with watching something that was so captivating and then me getting interested in companies that are a little bit more eclectic, I thought, oh, it doesn't have to look like so you think. You, I love. So you think and dance. I mean, I haven't watched it in years, but it doesn't have to look like something else, you know? So that's, that's what really, I felt like really opened my eyes and I, and gave me inspiration and freedom like I can. And gaga, too, I love. Like, I've been training in Gaga for a couple years, so Gaga has really informed the way that I approach art and dance and movement as well.
[36:43] Valerie: Okay, beautiful. All right. There's a few other questions I want to ask you. I think the first one that I'm going to go ahead and ask you is, from the time that I met you up until now, how much has life changed for you?
[37:00] Annett: Oh, this changed a lot. If you had told me that I would be going to grad school, like, I thought, well, first of all, when I was done with college, I thought, I'm never going to college again. And if I do go back, maybe I might go back for dance for my MFA. But I'm actually studying clinical mental health because I coach couples and individuals on relationships and communication. And I thought, okay, getting my licensure will give me another challenge and also make me a better coach. So that's what I never thought that I would be back in school in my fifties. Like, never thought, never planned on it. And I never thought that I would be performing again. Like, I never thought dance was again supposed to be just a mode to use, a tool to use for health, and instead, it's turned into, like, my whole lifestyle and has given me so many different experiences and challenges and has tested me and introduced me to wonderful people like you and other people that I've gotten to collaborate with and dance with and do all kinds of things with and introduce me to. Introducing to yoga and other ways of thinking and other philosophies and other belief systems has been, I thought I would be set. Like, I thought that I would be so stuck on a certain belief system and meeting other people and allowing myself to be open to other viewpoints and perspectives has just really continued to challenge me, open my world, and makes me want to be a better person. Makes me want to be the best version of myself, whatever that looks like. And knowing that that doesn't have to look like anybody else.
[38:44] Valerie: Yeah. What it looks like from the outside is that your energy seems to have exploded. So I want to ask you, have you ever burned out in your life? And, well, let me ask you that first. So that's a more simple yes or no, but have you ever burnt out in your life?
[39:04] Annett: Oh, yes. Actually, quite recently. I would say about a year ago, I got burnt out on teaching yoga. I haven't gotten burned out on dance. I have to say, I have not gotten burnt out, and I think it's because I've been away from it for so long, and so I'm trying to just take advantage of what I can. I am definitely more strategic about performances and projects I say yes to. So I don't. There was one point where I thought, okay, this was actually one of my goals. Like, I'm gonna do something every single month, whether it's a show, something, I'm gonna perform, I'm gonna. I'm gonna find a way. And somehow shows came up. There was one show that I did. It was like every weekend, several shows a weekend. So it was kind of like a series. So that was a lot of fun. I think that month I did, like, twelve different shows, and I loved every minute, minute of it. So I've never burnt out on performing dance, you know, that kind of thing. But teaching yoga, I did. I felt like, almost to the point where I'm like, I don't know if I want to, like, I don't know if I want to do yoga anymore. Like, I loved it so much, and it's helped me. So it's helped me through grief, too. Like, it's just been so instrumental in dealing with grief. But that's the burnout that I felt, and that was quite recent.
[40:15] Valerie: Okay. And I want to also draw it back to. Because you mentioned anxiety and depression, right. And there is an energy drain that comes from depression that is very profound to the point where it's like, you can almost. It's hard to imagine what a life of energy would feel like again sometimes.
[40:35] Annett: Yes.
[40:36] Valerie: Right. So how. How did you gain that energy back after going through depression? Like, where. Where. When did you start to feel a point where it was like, oh, my God, like, it's gone? You know, what is. How did you get to that place?
[40:55] Annett: When I came back to dance, okay.
[40:57] Valerie: And it was sudden, like, yeah, okay.
[41:00] Annett: I wouldn't. I think it was. It seemed like it was sudden. And I. And I was thinking about this a couple years back where, I mean, I think it's so obvious now, but dance was dance, and movement really helped me heal the process of. And I think it's not just the movement, but everything that went along with it, all the internal stuff that I worked on because of what dance required, the physicality of what it required. It required me to do things a little bit differently. So, yeah, it was. I think if I didn't come back to dance or any kind of movement, I think I would still be. I definitely wouldn't be where I am now.
[41:37] Valerie: Mm hmm. Okay. That gives me a lot to think about, too, because sometimes I think about my own energy levels, and I'm like, hmm. I don't think I'm getting old, per se, but I also feel like I could be a lot more energetic than I am, and it's more of that motivational energy than it is that an inspirational energy that I feel like I'm missing sometimes rather than the actual physical energy, even though I think they do feed into each other.
[42:11] Annett: Yes.
[42:12] Valerie: Yeah. So that brings me to a question of health, and, you know, we've discussed a little bit about yoga and ayurveda and all of that. When you were getting back on your feet with the dancing and the health and all that, like, when did it become apparent to you that health was instrumental in your growth?
[42:33] Annett: It was from the beginning, because I knew that in order to dance, to start taking more classes, I needed to. Plus, you know, I was way heavier, so I needed to get that extra if I wanted to move a little bit more efficiently, like, you know, I know there are people that. That are comfortable with moving just their, you know, their bodies are okay with. And I've seen dancers that move very well, and they're. They. I mean, they move very well, and it doesn't. It's not a hindrance. It was a hindrance for me, and I was very uncomfortable in my skin, and so I thought, okay, and again, the experiment thing. Okay, what if I get well for the health thing? First of all, I wanted to get. I was the stairs situation that, you know, that was a wake up call. And knowing my family history with, you know, my. Well, mostly my dad's side. But, yeah, it was. I knew that I had to. That had to be in tandem if I wanted to be the best, that I could be movement wise and also feel comfortable within my body. That health component wasn't. It had to be part of it. I know dancers, too, that don't. Take care of themselves in terms of that, and that might work for them. I knew that that wasn't going to work for me long term.
[43:49] Valerie: Okay. You also mentioned before that you have kind of, like, came from a negative background, and there's a lot of identity shedding right, when it comes to transformation. And part of that has to do with letting go of how we were brought up sometimes or, like, you know, beliefs that we held, etcetera. What have you had to let go of in order to become the person you are today?
[44:19] Annett: Oh, wow. These questions, they're great. I've had to let go of. We talked a little bit about it, that my ability to do certain things in dance doesn't make me better or worse as an artist. And also, whether I have credits behind my name doesn't make me any better or inferior as an artist or as, more importantly, as a person. I think that would, that's, that was the real issue. Like, if I'm not, and I also had to ask myself, if I'm not, if I'm not a dancer, am I still valuable? You know, if I'm not a relationship coach, if I'm not a yoga teacher, am I still okay as Annette, you know? And sometimes I'm like, I don't know. I mean, there's so much, you know, the awareness of having this attachment to identity is something I'm still, quite frankly, still working on. And the years and years of telling yourself you're not good enough or because you're not. And it's a cultural thing, too. I thought Europeans are better than me. They have a leg up because they're whatever. And it's kind of, I kind of grew up with that, too. Like, if you looked more european, then you were favored more. And it just was in our culture. And so, and even with my parents, my mom used to say, you know, these people are better than us because of, and so it was, it's been a lot of that. So I've had to learn to shed a lot, you know, a lot of that kind of identity besides the dance and artistic thing. So that was first that I had to really come to grips with. Like, no, that's, that's, maybe that's the way that I was brought up and maybe that's the way that, but that's not true. I had to tell myself, is that true? Is that I took constantly lots of questions. I used to think it was bad to ask questions because I used to always be the one to. But you know what? Asking questions has served me very well, especially in podcasting, too, and. And also in coaching, because you ask questions, you. You get more. More answers.
[46:32] Valerie: Yep.
[46:32] Annett: You get more information. So, yeah, there's a lot of the internal identity beliefs, more so first, more so than the artistic, because that informed the artistic perceptions and perspectives. And still work in progress. Definitely. Still a work in progress.
[46:49] Valerie: Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever found yourself challenged by people when you decided to change?
[46:59] Annett: Had challenged in what way?
[47:01] Valerie: I guess, like, people who are attached to your old identity. Right. Your old way of doing things, and all of a sudden, you.
[47:09] Annett: Oh, yeah, it's. Yeah, it definitely family. I was. I don't know if it's just a parent child thing where they just. They think of you as yours, as how they remember you, and especially if you've spent time apart, lived apart, then you go through all your experiences, you change, you become an adult, and you getting, you know, you peak, and. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. My parents for. Oh, even, yeah. My extended family, too. They still. They thought it was cool that I have done what I've done, but they still have. They're still kind of set in their belief system, which is fine, which is okay, but it's still kind of the way they talk to me sometimes. It's still kind of, like, rooted in, like, the traditional values of certain things and. And how we're supposed to do certain things, which I respect as well. But, yes, being challenged of did come from my family, but it's good for me. I mean, it shows, you know, do I believe what I believe, and do I still keep living my life the way that I feel is authentic to me? Yes. You know, yes or no. You know, I could go the other way. And there was even a point in college when my dad was like, well, why don't you just come back and teach at the university? And I thought, but I didn't leave to, like, to go back to settle like, I looked. That's the way. Even though I was about to quit, I'm like, no, even going back would be settling. So somewhere in me, I was always like, I don't want to settle. And that also propelled me and push me forward to take up dance again.
[48:50] Valerie: Yes. Okay, so we're coming up on the end of our conversation, there's one more question that I would like to ask, because I know that the road of transformation is not easy. It might seem like on the outside, we're just, like, flourishing, and everything is going great, and we are doing amazing things, but I know that there are definitely roadblocks that, you know, we face, and there's. There are slopes, and it goes down, goes up and it goes down. So what do you tell yourself to keep going when it does hit, like, a low point? How do you approach those now that you know that that's kind of part of the journey?
[49:29] Annett: Well, if I want to cry, I let myself cry. So that hasn't been as often. Except for when, during this time, from coming back to dance to now losing my. I talked about grief, about yoga helping me through grief. So two of the lowest points were when I lost my sister and I lost my mom recently. So it's been like, those have been low points, but that informed, like, how I approached things. And other than that, when I hit those low points, I used to just be like, okay, everything's good. Everything's great. Just kind of like, try to put on a happy face. And which, you know, I. I tend to go more toward the positive because I spent way too much time being negative. But I also, I'm able to acknowledge and be aware of it versus getting down on it. So a lot of times I'll ask myself, okay, I'll ask myself, okay, I'm feeling low. This is ****. I don't know what to do or whatever. What does the question, I learned this from a friend of mine several years ago. What does this make possible? Well. And then I start going to say, okay, there's some good things, and maybe, okay, what does this make possible? And this is temporary. I tell myself, this is, you know, this is a moment. This is temporary. Our life is like this anyway. We know this logically. Okay, what does this make possible? And that question has helped me a lot to get through a lot of different things.
[51:01] Valerie: Yeah. Beautiful. Amazing. Thank you so much, Annette. So is there anything else that you want the world to know before we close this out?
[51:12] Annett: Oh, first of all, if you want to, I have this thing that I put together, this easy thing. If you want it, if you want to follow me on Instagram. Annettbone. And if you dm me the word square, I'll send you my one page. I call it the mindset square. It's called the square. I forgot how I named it. Sorry. I just, like, I was, like, playing around. Anyway, so in less than five minutes, if you want to change your mindset, I'll send you that. So just dm me and put square and I'll send it to you. But. So there's that. But I would say one of my favorite sayings, and I've used it. So it's been so instrumental for me since I came back to dance is it was credited to Roosevelt, but I think he got it from someone else, if I read correctly, and it's do what you can with what you have, with where you're at, or there's some variation of that, there is always something that you can do to move forward. We have so many resources and people to help. You know, even when you think that you. There's nothing or you have to have certain parameters or scenarios that need to be in line before you start something or things have to be in order, it does not do what you can with what you have, where you're at. And you'll be amazed with the steps that you take when things are not perfect, when you don't have everything figured out, what happens. That's what I would say.
[52:43] Valerie: All right, thank you, everyone. This is Annette phone. And you are an amazing, amazing mentor, amazing human being. Thank you so much for being here.
[52:54] Annett: Oh, thank you so much.
