[00:00] Valerie: Rise, renew, reconnect. Welcome to from the Ashes, a podcast where every story ignites hope and healing. Yeah, this is exciting. So I have Emeray with me here, and I wanted to interview you because even though I've known you for a while, it's kind of been like on and off. And I saw a post that you recently on Instagram where you talked about this dance piece that you made in 2017.
[00:42] Emeroy: Oh, yeah.
[00:44] Valerie: And it was, I believe, a piece that you made after an ended.
[00:49] Emeroy: Yeah, the end of. After my engagement and all that.
[00:54] Valerie: And one of the things that you said in that post is like, while many of us have a resume of milestone achievements, we also have a resume of battle scars. And that really resonated with me. And part of the reason I do this podcast is because I want to hear and I want to bring stories of hope and finding yourself again after hardship and obstacles. And I feel like someone like you, who uses art for expression, uses dance as expression, can really relate to that struggle and that story. First, let's start off maybe by having you tell from the ashes story that you've had in your life where you had to essentially start over.
[01:43] Emeroy: I think the one that comes up for me is even before that, say, 2013. Yeah, 2013 when I got arrested and yeah, when I got arrested and was in jail for a little bit or a domestic dispute with my partner and the main thing. So what happened? Yeah, I went to jail back in 2013, I was for a domestic dispute. I've shared this handful of times on my personal YouTube, but it was pretty bad argument with my fiance at the time. Yeah, that was a whole. It feels like a lifetime ago, but the feelings and emotions from that still feel very fresh. And it feels like to this day, it helps kind of dictate who I want to be because when I was in the jail cell, I, like, I was essentially by myself and never been in jail before. It was. And I never thought I would ever be in jail between all my friends because we know some of those friends are like, you'll be in jail. Not me. Just kidding. It's me. So. And that being me being in my cell, I was just jail cell. Never been in jail before, and I was by myself, so there was no one to kind of like, talk to or vent to. It was just me in my. My head, my emotions of what happened and the guilt, the shame of being in jail, feeling like I failed as, I guess, a man, as a father, as a provider, as a person, because ultimately you don't want to be in a place where you are in jail, at least for me, because the story I had in my mind was, if you're in jail, you're not a good person. And I, what do you caught? Got to a point where, because thankfully, some leadership program stuff I did, like, I had some, like, tools that I was really trying to put into use in terms of, like, I'm responsible for this. I'm also responsible for never coming back here again. And I went to a place of, like, okay, if I'm responsible for this, like, what were the things and the signs that I was clearly overlooking? Because I was running an old script and I was too much in my own ego to not listen because I know a huge part in that is, I guess, in the form of the ego. But also, like, I experience really bad, like, bouts of anger. I had anger issues. I still experience those. Those same immense emotions of anger. I just. I feel like I've gotten really better just handling it. But back then, it was more like, this is. This happened. This happened. This happened. Get it hand. Get it taken care of. Get it taken care of. The whole thing of, here's the lesson life's trying to teach you. Try to do it. And it comes in different forms. I just wasn't listening until it got very extreme. And then, which led me to jail. And then that's where I noticed, like, this is. I'm here because I never listened. I didn't listen to everything that led me up to here, because this wasn't overnight. This was a series of decisions that I overlooked because I thought I was right.
[05:04] Valerie: Okay.
[05:05] Emeroy: And then, yeah, from there, spent time in jail and then got out. No one. Like, I remember stepping out of jail. It was probably like five, six in the afternoon or in the evening. And it was no one there. It was like no one to greet me. I felt alone, like, it was as if no one cared. And walked back to my apartment because it was probably 3 miles away from there, no car. And once I got back to my apartment, I was handed an eviction notice because I got arrested in front of everyone in my apartment, which is very embarrassing, especially in front of my landlord. So I got an eviction notice, had three days out to get everything out of my place and move back to my mom's place. And then from there, you know, because this sparked from a really bad argument with my fiance about some things that was so trivial, but it was just a matter of, like, not listening again. Like, I want to do my way, she wanted to do to her way. And the argument got bad. And the neighbors decided. I think one of the neighbors decided to call the cops because it was just loud. Yeah. And then what else? Yeah. Several days. So at that point, I'm realizing, like, I'm never, like, I'm living separately from my fiance and my son, and then we're both living in our own respective places. I think that was probably the last time I ever lived with my son when he was like, one. And this age has been with his mom, but, I mean, his mom's fantastic. I'm glad I'm better. Better choice than my opinion. Yeah. From there, when we went into the system of, like, child protective services got involved, I had 52 weeks of anger management, 52 weeks of domestic violence classes, 52 weeks of therapy. Whatever you can think of, I had to be in it.
[06:51] Valerie: Okay.
[06:51] Emeroy: And then I had to prove to the courts that I was not a threat to my family. They were having monitored visits. Yeah. And it was the same thing for her. She had to. They had to prove that she was a, say, like a sound of mind mom. And I remember being like, being someone from CPS coming in saying that they might not. I might not be allowed to see my son for a while. So this is like jail. Evicted CPS. They're just being separated. Yeah. Did all that. I was hungry from ever since I got there. I was like, I was hungry to never get here again. How do I change? How do I not repeat these same mistakes? So I took all that seriously. Anger management, domestic violence class, all of it. I was like, again, that's where I developed. I feel like I took feedback more seriously in terms of how can I grow from the things that come up for me. That's why I like therapy, because I talk and then someone asks a question that I wouldn't have thought of. Yeah. Grew. Aimed to grow from all that. I remember the first day going from, like, the first day we were at, what was it called? Child protect. CPS court. Child protection. We had to go to court to show again to the courts that both of us are of sound mind, parents. And I just remember just how children's court is probably one of the worst places to ever be at, because you see people, families walk in and then separate. You see parents coming with their kids and then parents leaving and balling and kids going somewhere else. And I was petrified of that because I wanted to be a dad. I still, like, I love being a dad. And the fact that. The idea that because I ****** up, this is going to happen.
[08:40] Valerie: Yeah.
[08:41] Emeroy: I was bawling. I was so scared out of my mind because the idea of my son. The idea of my son being in a stranger's home and then just hearing all the stories of people, of kids being in foster care and just how bad it was, I didn't. I, you know, I just feel like I. I failed him at that moment. So, um. So that's where I was. Like, that's where a lot of it was coming from. I don't want to let the people I care about down because of my own ego. So, yeah, did everything I can to show that. Then courts saw me as obviously the progress helped out a lot. They started loosening the reins of, like, monitored visits to, like, we can. I can visit whenever I want, just obviously. Or, like, co parenting, all that stuff. And eventually, like, getting out of the system. And then we were just. Yeah, we were in. We were in it for about 18 months. I say, like, that lie to end the tunnel on that was essentially just getting out of that system, not being monitored by a government body because. Yeah, I don't know. Every good person can have a bad day, and every bad, quote unquote bad person can have a good day, too. So it's like, I think we just got caught in one of our worst days and then that's all it takes for life to come. To come crashing at you.
[10:11] Valerie: Yeah.
[10:11] Emeroy: And then. Yeah, I mean, not too long after that, my engagement ended. Yeah, my engagement ended. And then that's where, like, the idea of the traditional family home was kind of, like, thrown away. And then I felt like, again, going back to these things of, like, feeling like I failed as a dad or as a family man. Cause growing up, I saw my own mom say to my dad that she doesn't love him anymore. And then that was just like, the spiraling. I think that was 6th grade, middle school, one of those. So. And I felt worse because we weren't even married yet and my son was still, like, one or two. And it happened sooner or so, I guess. And. Yeah, and it's just I felt bad, like, terrible. Like, who am I as a dad? If this is not this? Who am I as a man? Who am I as a. As a partner? And then again, it goes back to, like, just, I would say, being too late and listening to the feedback. Yeah, yeah. I mean, in the long run of looking back at it, going to jail was probably one of the better things for me because it me towards the path, it was a blessing in disguise. Ending the engagement was good. Both, I guess, for our mental health because though it was good. I think there was still a lot of growing for us to do because when we would get into arguments, it would just be ******* terrible. And we just did not want our son to be around that because, like, it was just us. We tried to figure it out. We can figure out how to be partners, but with a kid, I did not want to figure out how to be partners and have the kids see that really messy, ugly process, and then. Because then that would traumatize the kid. So, I mean, I can only imagine, like, things that I could improve right now as a parent. But, yeah, I mean, yeah, that's one of them. One of the stories.
[12:10] Valerie: Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And I was not aware of any of that. So let's take a deep breath in there. And I want to ask you, because you mentioned a few things. The role of ego and the need to be right and the underlying anger. A lot of people can probably get through life not thinking that ego is a problem, because, like, a healthy ego is passable. You can survive and get through life just fine. But when the ego gets in the way of you being able to listen or to maneuver situations, that's when it becomes problematic, especially when it comes to relationships. And so, like, you might not think that, like, you have a problem even.
[12:58] Emeroy: Yeah.
[12:59] Valerie: The other person might think, like, there's a huge situation going on there. Right?
[13:02] Emeroy: Yeah.
[13:03] Valerie: When or how did you go through the process of realizing that your ego is getting in the way?
[13:11] Emeroy: Hmm, good question. How did I get into the process? I think, I mean, to give credit, I did go through some leadership programs, and I read a book called ego is the enemy from Ryan Holiday. So that kind of helped, but also that kind of helped give me awareness of this, how ego can be. Can be detrimental towards relationships. But in the process of doing that, I think it really was therapy because especially. And also going to, like, couples therapy, like, towards the end of the. The 18 months with the CPS, like, we started doing couples therapy, uh, my partner and I, and it was more like when I would be in my own ego in these sessions, obviously, when I. When one is in their own emotions, it's kind of easy to be stuck there. Uh, but then someone. And obviously that's not. Who's kind of a little bit more objective. Posing questions like that kind of brought me out. Like, look how it's affecting them. And then that's where, like, I. I would have, like, when I'm mad, I said, I have a thing of just not looking at the person. But when I look at them, just like, empathy. Like, I mean, practice empathy and then not just in the sense of, like, yeah, I guess the way. In the sense of, like, I see them see and I really look at them of, like, the sadness in their eyes and then how it's being. How my. That's affecting and affecting them and it helps is using the I feel statements or I statements. And then when I hear them say, I feel this, I really try to listen. It really brings perspective that I usually. That I don't have so different perspectives trying to see things, see them as they are in that emotion. And also, I mean, if I'm in it, like, I'm just, like, being a ***** about it. I need time for myself then. Yeah, because, like, there's something about me that's rising up, coming from this situation, so I need to, like, chill because I'm very reactive right now and then because it's, I don't know, triggers. Like, it's kind of like bringing up this version of me that I know it's maybe trying to protect me. Maybe it's. Maybe it's. It's something. But I know if I go down this path, it will not be productive, so I need to, like, chill. So it's like, a handful of tools that I think therapy has helped because being in therapy, I have to put it to practice. Yeah, I think that that's definitely been. Definitely been helpful. Like, finding tools that end up being the byproduct of, like, practicing empathy. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to admit I still feel like I'm heavy work in progress. I'm just sharing what I've been using. I'm not. I'm just saying that I'm not perfect at it. I'm just. It's what helped. It helps. It works when I actually do the thing.
[16:08] Valerie: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think all of us are works in progress. Like, anyone who says that they've made it probably has a longer way to go.
[16:16] Emeroy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[16:17] Valerie: And it's just, like, part of, I find that in life, like, the more you go on, the more you realize just how little you actually know and how you. You just, like, I've gotten into these places where, like, oh, I've got this. And then the thing that I've always needed to get to or, like, my goal has never been accomplished because, like, I'm just stuck in my own old ways.
[16:36] Emeroy: Yeah.
[16:37] Valerie: So you mentioned something about just, like, the earlier patterns. Right. And triggers.
[16:41] Emeroy: Right.
[16:42] Valerie: Triggers often come from childhood.
[16:44] Emeroy: Yeah.
[16:45] Valerie: And usually have to do something with, like, self protection and whatnot. Do you see any role in generational trauma or those ideas in how you have developed as a person?
[17:02] Emeroy: I mean, for people listening, I don't have the greatest grasp on generational trauma, but I do know that I grew up in a very dysfunctional home, which led to patterns that are, like, whatever it is to protect me and just very. So if some of those patterns are interrupted, I know I can get pretty on edge. Can we just. Because out of my own ignorance, can we get on the same definition of generational trauma?
[17:32] Valerie: Yeah.
[17:32] Emeroy: Yeah.
[17:33] Valerie: Or at least my understanding of it. Right. Because I'm not, like, an expert either, but that the difficulties and the traumas that our ancestors had carry through to us. And it's not some kind of magical thing that happens, but you can even just think about the way that I was raised. I come from a chinese family. My parents were born and raised in Taiwan. And the reason they were born and raised in Taiwan is because my grandparents fled communist China. So they fled during the war and then were basically refugees in this new place. So there was a lot of volatility and just parents trying to protect. Protect their children, but at the same time, like, trying to survive. And so there was a lot of, like, explosive anger in my family as well. And you can see the way that this has influenced my parents and just the way that they react to things. You can see it in their health problems, like a lot of high blood pressure, heart disease, et cetera.
[18:31] Emeroy: Yeah. Yeah.
[18:32] Valerie: And just the way that, like. Yeah, they carried themselves in, the way they parented me. And so, like, you know, stuff that happened in my grandparents generation and beyond probably trickles down into just, you know, we don't see the reason why, but we see the behavior.
[18:51] Emeroy: Yeah. The impact. I can definitely see that because I know that there's definitely anger that I've experienced from both sides of my family feelings. I'd say it's also kind of a filipino thing. It's like, feelings of. Of, like, low self worth. Cause there's always. There's always a comparison, like, oh, why aren't you, like, this cousin? Or even between my siblings. Oh, this is what your brother's doing. Or, like. And I sometimes, even as older brother, sometimes that would happen. They would compare my brothers to me, and I hated it. And just. That just seeping through. Cause then it brought resentment between all of us even more so as we got older. Yeah. Very explosive anger from my mom. All of them. Yeah. Because I'm a first generation immigrant. My mom, like, coming here is like around my age, trying to figure out and survive a new country. Yeah, I feel like it definitely has a lot of influence in that. That's where once I became, once I found I was gonna become a dad, I wanted everything to do in my power to not repeat that because I see the history in my family of like high blood pressure, all those things. My grandma passed away this year, so. I love you, grandma. Hope you're doing well. So, and, yeah, so just trying to shift the direction. Even if it's, what do you call it? An inch. I know down the line that inch is gonna go a long way. So from my experience of feeling like I was demonized for being mad while they were mad, like, I'm like, control your temper. Like how you're mad too. Then actually showing my son how to deal with being upset. He's a way better communicator about his feelings than I was at his age. He's like eleven. He's like, I feel this. I need time for myself. I need quiet. And I'm like, that's fantastic. Because when I was his age, I would punch things, I would yell. So. And I just love and appreciate that he can. That he can say that and he feels okay to say it because growing up, at least for me, talking back, especially asian parents like you, was not okay. Was not okay for me. I get reprimanded or get my *** beat for even talking back. Yeah, so. But he's okay to talk back and share his thoughts, to say, this is what I need. I need to be quiet right now. Yeah, obviously, like in terms of the health side, like sharing with him the importance of just moving and taking care of your body. Like I try to tell him, like, okay, just like some. Just to implant in his brain. Cardio is good for the heart muscle. Strength training is good for the strength training is good for the muscles. Meditations good for the mind. Just trying to have that script in his mind. So at least it's like ingrained that these are ways you can take care of yourself. Because I was not taught how to, like, you know, none of us, like my parents or my family, like, we knew how to properly take care of ourselves. What I saw from my mom is that she was a workaholic, same with my dad. And I feel like part of the reasons I became a workaholic is because I remember at a young age one of the reasons she divorced my dad. I don't think I've ever told this anyone. Think about it, was she didn't. My dad wasn't ambitious. He kind of was kind of okay and settled, and I was in. I think I do remember in my head, I was like, I'm gonna be ambitious. Which led to me wanting to start my own **** business. All this trying to graduate early and which has now led me to be a workaholic.
[22:41] Valerie: Okay.
[22:41] Emeroy: Yeah.
[22:42] Valerie: All right, so let's backtrack just a little bit, because I do want to tap into the wellness stuff, and I especially dance, since I know you do a lot of that. And you can also go a little bit into whatever modalities you have used throughout the years. How has movement influenced your ability to personally grow?
[23:02] Emeroy: Oh, God. It's like, I do. I work out at least once or twice a day. Cause I feel like. I don't know. It's like I feel like, just stuck. There was this moment when I had Covid and I was just not doing anything for two weeks. I could feel myself. I felt like my body was kind of rotting, even though it wasn't. But it was also, like, there was this antsiness and sadness that I had. And then once I was able to move again, it was just like, yes. There's, like, the mind body connection that was really, really missing.
[23:35] Valerie: Yeah.
[23:35] Emeroy: I didn't do it because of that. Because it feels good to feel connected with my body. I don't really do it for, like, for gains or anything like that. I do it because it's. It. I like that. That connection. Another reason I like doing it is because I'm literally letting myself go through a hardship on purpose. Like, especially because I do a lot of lifting. My morning routine is part of has. Includes lifting. So if I'm lifting something heavy and it's hard, cool, that's part of it. And I literally push through it. Like, what we do with some. Some breakdowns and challenges, we do our best, and sometimes we're not able to lift the weight. But that doesn't mean you're a failure.
[24:13] Valerie: Yeah.
[24:14] Emeroy: So, like, there's a lot of metaphorical things I take from that. Like, that mindset that kind of is transferable to everything else. Rest between working out. So, like, between sets, much like everyday work. It's funny how everyone thinks, like, you're supposed to work 8 hours straight. That doesn't work. It doesn't work in working out, doesn't work in the average. In the typical corporate environment, we need the balance of. We need to oscillate between work and rest. So that's what I love about it now going into, like, I do night training as well, which is just doing some breaking training or freestyle training. That's where I get to be a little bit more intentional and experimental with creativity, because I take what I can do and see what I can do, what else I can do on top of that. And it's also that I just like the, I guess, how present I have to be when I'm trying to do something. I think just being physically active and moving, it just means I have to be very, very present. Otherwise I'm not going to do it right. Otherwise it's. Or if I'm practicing choreography that I learned, I completely just blank out.
[25:21] Valerie: Yeah.
[25:21] Emeroy: So it's like, what I love is how present I have to be, because that's all there is.
[25:25] Valerie: Yeah.
[25:26] Emeroy: Yeah.
[25:27] Valerie: How long have you been dancing?
[25:29] Emeroy: About 25 years.
[25:30] Valerie: 25 years. Okay. Did your motivation to dance, has that changed throughout the years? And, like, how has your identity evolved as an artist and a dancer?
[25:40] Emeroy: I started dancing when I was eight because I heard Michael Jackson, and I was like, yeah, what is this? And I was just moving. It was just for fun. I stopped dancing for four years because in 6th grade I was called the f word. And that's when it was not cool for boys to dance. So I quit for a while, but came back because my friends all joined the dance team and I wanted to hang out with my friends. So my motivation for that was to hang out with my friends, but also get comfortable just being around girls and also dancing in front of girls. I was like, you know, you know, a young high school boy, like, yeah. Like, it just helped build my confidence. My motivation now is I just like doing it. Yeah. I do it cause I like doing it, not so I can get some sort of result out of it.
[26:21] Valerie: Yeah.
[26:21] Emeroy: Yeah, for sure.
[26:23] Valerie: That's awesome.
[26:23] Emeroy: Yeah.
[26:24] Valerie: And can you tell me a little bit about your company? And when did you start. When did you start being a business owner? And what was that transition like for you? Like, what drove that decision?
[26:36] Emeroy: Mmm. Which company?
[26:38] Valerie: Oh, okay.
[26:38] Emeroy: Let's.
[26:38] Valerie: Let's start from the beginning of your entrepreneurship journey.
[26:42] Emeroy: Yeah. Okay. Beginning entrepreneurship journey. I got really interested in it during. In the middle of this leadership program I was in. My friend had this book called the four hour Workweek. I was like, that sounds nice.
[26:53] Valerie: One of my favorites.
[26:54] Emeroy: Yeah, yeah. At the time, I was working at a video game studio. Fantastic pay. I was like 25, earning 45 an hour. Yeah, I was a direct. I was a tech director for some video game studio. But the thing is, it was like 60, 80 hours weeks, and I'm like, what am I doing a lot? Like, what am I going to be able to spend and use this money aside from pay rent? So. And I got a little bit existential. Like, there's got to be more to than just doing this. There's one of the reasons I joined the leisure program. When I heard that my friends were like, entrepreneurs. Like, what's that? And then they say, oh, yeah, I have a coaching business. Oh, I have a whatever business. And like, you guys can do that. So that kind of like, was a seed. After my contract had ended with this game studio, I actually went into personal training for a bit because I thought it was like kind of the easier route. Yeah, quote unquote. Let me backtrack. Actually, after that, I was sold on the Herbalife MLM. Cause I actually lost weight from that guy. Pretty great results, which transferred me to doing some coaching there. I was like, ****, I'm good at ******* selling. And I was like, **** it. Because that stemmed from. Okay, now we're going to another tangent. Sorry, everyone. Follow me on this journey that stemmed from my 1st. 1st job ever was doing selling knives at Cutco.
[28:16] Valerie: Oh, yeah, I remember Cutco.
[28:20] Emeroy: Yeah. And then I was like. Cause I was very, like, rebellious in a sense. I wanted to be different. Like, all my friends were getting retail jobs or whatever, and I was like, nah, I'm gonna be different and I'll get this thing where I work my own hours. And then I remember just doing the whole process, the sales process of Cutco, because they would have in the script and I would just read it all like an awkward, I think, 18 year old, 17 year old trying to make money, but that, but people still buying it because they probably felt sorry for me, that kind of, but still gave me confidence. I was like, at the sale that stemmed from me when I joined the next MLM, which later on, which is herbalife, what do you call it, helped me feel comfortable with actually selling because I was like, if I can sell knives, I can sell anything. So that helped. And because then I also had results, so therefore I believed in it. Did that. But then the commission and pay for all that was ******* garbage. So I'm like, nah, that's where I went into trying to do more personal training. Um, and, uh, I was a workout freak for like, for a while. I just loved doing it. And then just get people to work while workout with me, put them on a nutrition plan. And it just. Yeah, that was kind of the beginning of the entrepreneurship journey. Just me doing trainings for a bit, but then joined antics. And I wanted that. I decided to get back into dancing, but I started my, my business, business vision paradox, which is a social media agency, back in, officially, on paper, 2016. Yeah, 2016. Because I started as kind of an egg, as a means of a way out when I retire as a dancer, because at that time, I thought I was going to retire soon. You know, like, I'm 25, 26, not going to be dancing forever. Still dancing now. Yeah. That from there, that, that. The confidence that led me to start vision paradox was from prior to experience in doing YouTube stuff. So I was doing YouTube tutorials and then I was trying to get people into my YouTube course, but I didn't know any of that. So I, like, how do I get people into my course? Cool. Learn how to make a landing page, learn how to do Facebook ads, learn how to, what do you call it? Do email marketing campaigns. I learned all that to try to sell people, of course. And then that transferred into when I first took on some of the marketing for antics, particularly with the Philadelphia show, where we ran some Facebook ads and sold out the. Sold out the show.
[30:48] Valerie: Okay.
[30:49] Emeroy: So that kind of helped out and kind of gave me more. More and more confidence. But even then I had zero marketing, a, quote unquote, formal marketing education, because I came from an animation industry. So I was willing to do things like either really low or really cheap, and then started doing it for more other people. And the more results I got for other people, the more I started charging. That's what started vision products. Now we're doing that for. We're currently working with music entertainment company and a couple dental companies. So those are ones that kind of pay a little bit more because they have the revenue, too. But, yeah, that's kind of where we are now. That is where we are now. So essentially, that's where I was starting off, just trying it and just building confidence and the body of work. And then now that I have a body of work, I have evidence, therefore I can charge this in terms of my dance company. Temper tantrum. Dance company we started in 2019, what do you call it? It was originally a project, but my friends convinced, coerced me to make it into a company because the culture of the company was very like crew like, is what Tin would say, my friend Tin, it felt like people felt safe to be themselves there. It was very. It was nice to not be in a toxic, overly competitive rehearsal space.
[32:22] Valerie: Yeah.
[32:22] Emeroy: Everyone was always supportive of each other. Still is now. Yeah. And people wanted to continue it because people are saying it's not often you find a space where you can just be truly yourself in terms of a dance company that works towards things. Did not want to do it because I did not want to do a glorified hobby because time is a scarce resource and I was trying to build my company. But I also really ******* love dance. I want to do something with it. And then I know I don't hit all the marks in terms of industry work. I'm not sick. Five'nine, I'm not, you know, I'm not cut. So I had, and I sure as hell didn't want to drive all the way to Anaheim to do. To try to audition and dance at Disney.
[33:03] Valerie: Yeah.
[33:04] Emeroy: So, yeah, so I kind of came up with a plan of how to monetize the thing. And I also knew based off experience or doing marketing and building people's brands that this is going to take a while unless we do some crazy collaboration, unless we do ad spend dollars, whatever it is. But, yeah, so I came up with a plan, like, of how we would eventually be profitable. Yeah, I think we're. I think this. This is. We're finally at a point where we are profitable.
[33:32] Valerie: Right.
[33:32] Emeroy: Like. But, like, enough to be just over the black.
[33:36] Valerie: Okay.
[33:37] Emeroy: Because the past two years we've been in the red because, you know, I still consider my dance company a startup because we're using a lot of resources to create things where. But the hard thing with dance companies is that it's not. It's not exactly a revenue driving model because whereas, you know, I'd say. I would almost say like someone. Like a cup. There's some. Some people who need a cup. Not everyone wakes up needing a dance. Yep. It's very, very like. And if it is, it's also very, very competitive. So the model. The idea that I have is if. The way I thought of it is if the jabawakis, kinjas, what do you call it, royal fam, can do it, make a brand out of themselves and say if they're like the a level tier of dance brands and that are at least making money. And I define that as dance companies that can actually pay their dancers and not be like, we're professional dance company, but we're not paying you. So if that's the gold standard, then I would like to at least be to work towards the bronze right now to a point where. Because coming from, because, you know, like, where we danced, we were paid hourly, we were paid for touring. I don't know if you've ever danced with any other. With any of the other dance crews in SoCal. But a lot of it is really just like volunteer work or you pay studio fees. So there is that. So it's more like you're literally giving more. The company's giving. Taking a little bit more. And this giving you exposure, essentially. We're kind of doing that right now, but I'm aiming to. We're working towards, to one, pay the dancers, create a revenue, solid revenue. And what I do every quarter with the team, with, particularly with temper Tantrum dance company. Like, we. We have quarterly meetings and I share with them the financials. And we have several revenue streams coming already in terms of being able to help pay for some venues, help pay for rehearsal space, so that way the dancers don't have to take on too much of the cost. Yeah. Like the previous. What we officially started in 2020, all the way to 2023. Like, dancers didn't have to pay anything. They just come in and do their job. Yeah, but the downside is I couldn't cut them a check yet, but, yeah. Now, again, everything I know will take time in terms of just the more we do, the more it'll compound. And it's showing. In terms of the graphs I show, like, this is where we are, is how much we're earning now. If we continue doing this, we will continue reaping these benefits.
[36:23] Valerie: Yeah.
[36:24] Emeroy: We just need to be consistent. Consistent and patient. So, yeah. The model with that is really building a dance brand entertainment in terms of, like, what would it look like if we did a shoot from. For Nike? If. Regardless, if they don't book us, it'll look like no one's gonna know that on your. In your demo reel.
[36:41] Valerie: Yeah.
[36:41] Emeroy: So that coming from that, like, as if we're already working with these clients.
[36:46] Valerie: Yeah.
[36:46] Emeroy: Yeah.
[36:47] Valerie: Which I think is great education for dancers because I don't think we're given that mindset ever. Like, that's very rare, you know, that we would even be told to think about the money behind what we're doing.
[36:59] Emeroy: Yeah. So I'm very open about that. Like, here's what we earned this month. Here's these past few months. And this is why we're. And I would tell them, this is what happened. This is why we're changing direction. Because I feel like a good chunk of the time, decisions are made from leaders without knowing why.
[37:15] Valerie: Yeah.
[37:15] Emeroy: You're just doing it because they have some sort of official statement.
[37:19] Valerie: Yeah.
[37:19] Emeroy: So, and. But this just to prevent misinterpretations as much as possible. At least it's. What my thought is, is be as transparent as you can comfortably. You don't have to tell everything, but, like, here's what the central information that they need to know in terms of, at least for me, like, the financials, where it's going, why we're doing it. Yeah. So. But I think we're in a. Getting into a good place, but right now, I don't know when this is being released. Right now we're doing Indiegogo campaign to try to fill in the gap of some of the venue rentals we're trying to do. Cool.
[37:58] Valerie: When is the deadline for that?
[38:00] Emeroy: Next week.
[38:01] Valerie: Okay.
[38:01] Emeroy: Yeah. So this episode will probably be out. Yeah, but, yeah, it's. Yeah, that's the two business, primary businesses. I mean, the other, quote, unquote, I'd say third business is my personal brand. A lot of my own personal brands actually. Also, like, I have online course still that started in 2014 and it's still bringing me revenue. I have a Patreon and YouTube. I guess it is a personal brand. I just have a hard time saying it's my personal brand because there's such a negative connotation around it. But all of which is still is bringing money to help pay rent.
[38:33] Valerie: Yeah.
[38:34] Emeroy: So. And it's a significant. It's a good amount.
[38:36] Valerie: Yeah.
[38:36] Emeroy: So that would be my third. My third business because it just, which is that.
[38:41] Valerie: So they say, and I agree with this, that starting a business and being an entrepreneur is one of the most self confronting journeys you can go on because you will find places where you have blocks on whatever. Like, for me, definitely, like the fear of rejection or just like, money blocks about stuff. Did you ever experience that in your journey where you had to overcome some kind of, like, of yourself bumping against the success of your business?
[39:15] Emeroy: Yeah, there are. It's very lonely. Yeah. I think part of it is dealing with the loneliness of it because it's. Honestly, it's nice to talk to you because it's like, not a whole lot of entrepreneur. I don't have a whole lot of entrepreneur friends because most of the time I'm just working. But it can be a lonely journey. It is. Because not all your friends and family will understand it because why are you doing this? I feel like the typical stuff people would say already on Instagram, on YouTube, but it really is just to share, to contribute to that story. It is a lonely journey and it's being able to be okay with yourself, being patient with yourself and I. And that leads to the next thing is just not being so hard on yourself for not being where you want to be already? Cause it's like, especially when we see people at, like, who are already, like, in the quote unquote endgame who've made fantastic results. It's hard to not compare. Yeah, because you want to be there already. Because I don't want to waste any more time I'm using. I'm losing all this time and losing all this money. I want to be there already. So this just. And then, because when, when I do enter that state, it leads to this sort of actions, which is very frenetic. I'm on edge. So that's where, like, I had to learn, like, this is not okay in terms of, like, if I try to rush it, the slower I get, because now I'm trying to force the issue and I'm being snappy towards everyone. It's becoming a negative effect. I might get more **** done, maybe five by 5%, but it's just like. Or maybe 1%, but it's. But at what cost? Yeah, it leads to having, how I ask myself questions to, I guess, do things instead of, like, what do I need to do today? What are the most important things I need to do today? Or even if I don't get **** done today, what can I do that'll still make it feel like I won? Because it really is just also, like, aside from getting the work done, it's also like a mental self, mental script battle game. Because sometimes when we're not productive, especially in our society, it's like we don't feel worthy or. Yeah, because we weren't productive. But, like, yesterday, I had, what do you call it? I had two meetings, and I had, like, a couple things I wanted to actually, like, do because I like my. The primary thing I like doing, just because I love it is because I, like, I like editing videos and I didn't get to do that. But the upside was I got two business meetings, like, and it was. I didn't, even though I didn't consider it work, it was still, like, that's where I found one, the w. Like, I don't know the result yet from that, these meetings, because they're two prospects in terms of, like, of working with my company. But it's like, I got that, and I got to, I got to spend time with my girlfriend Max. And then that was, it was just nice. It was nice and grounding and relaxing and. Yeah, and then I didn't have the pressure to try to do the thing. And I guess I'll add to this is, like, there will be moments where you where one needs to go, put the. Put the pedal to the metal and just go do an all nighter. And there will be times where you just need to relax. It's just. It's hard because everyone's situation is different.
[42:51] Valerie: Yeah.
[42:52] Emeroy: But it's knowing, I guess, what's necessary. It's. And figure out what we're trying to optimize before or who do we want to become. Yeah, I guess it's both because there's the goal, but there's a. In that. Who do you want to become in the process to achieve that goal? Anyone can be cutthroat and get the goal. I think that's a lot of people do. Those are, who are, like, crazy obsessive that just cut everyone off. They can get it, but. But those who want to try to maintain relationships, it's just going to be a longer ride. So.
[43:27] Valerie: Yeah, yeah, for sure. There was something you said. There are times in the entrepreneurship journey where it feels like you're just working for free forever. How did you navigate that if you did? Because there's a lot of that, like, I'm not worth it because my work isn't producing results. Thoughts that come to my head a lot of the time, and I don't know how to fight those, except I just have to remember to tell myself, this is for a bigger goal that's going to be rewarded down the line.
[44:00] Emeroy: Yeah. The question is, like, how long do we go for? How long do we just provide free work?
[44:08] Valerie: Not. Not that. Not so technical, but, like, just the how to emotionally navigate it if you did, like, because sometimes when you feel like you're just working by yourself and there's no money coming in. Right.
[44:22] Emeroy: Yeah.
[44:23] Valerie: You just don't see, like, you get caught up in, like, I'm not doing enough.
[44:28] Emeroy: Hmm. I think because I did acknowledge, like, man, some of this ****'* gonna be free for a bit. And then I had to figure out, okay, when will it not be free? And then I had to decide, like, okay, when I do this or that's when the shift will happen. Like, and it doesn't have to be like, I feel like starting with vision paradox, like, starting with low cost stuff. Like, regardless if I like, because I've had a handful of clients that say, like, that weren't too happy with some of the stuff because I ****** up, but none, regardless, I still produced something.
[45:04] Valerie: Yeah.
[45:05] Emeroy: In terms of, there's. I got a rep in, you know, like I was saying in the workout metaphor, like, taking care of the body. Like, there are some days where we, we were able to, we got lift the weight. Yeah, there are days we don't and then that happens with my client, with clients I've worked with as well. But regardless, I got the rep, but going backtracking is like, I knew I would start, but then I gave myself like a certain amount of like a definition of what would, what would it look like of that. What would a, let's say a $1000 thing look like? What would have, what would that, what I have to provide. Like would there be testimonials? Would there be this, this, this, that way I kind of got a clear, I'd say, identity of to try to match. Therefore I would do the actions for that. So I knew with VP, which paradox, like I'm going to work with several clients trying to get them either build followers, sales, what not, whatnot, and then put that, and then I wrote down the results, like, here's the things I did. Cool. What. And then I try to look at, I do this. So I googled it. This is before AI could help out. I had it say what was the entry level for this job? And then. Cool. Maybe I'm a little above entry level because I've been doing this for a while and that's where I start pricing it.
[46:31] Valerie: Okay.
[46:32] Emeroy: Yeah. At least there's different ways of pricing. You know, I'm pretty sure you're familiar with like value pricing and all this stuff, but this is just in the context of like how I got it from free to start charging. So like, once you, I even say people, like if you even after your first, like for photographers or people doing video after your first two or three shoots, start charging or like, or two or three or even one. I've never done, yeah, two or three. Like even coaching opportunities that you've done. I can't speak because I haven't done your version of your type of coaching, but like, if they had a good experience, regardless of like, of like, they got the concrete goal because the thing with goals is that they're very like, we don't have control if we get the end result, but we do have control of the habits we start helping them build. Yeah, so like, so if they got like at least that much, we got them to do something. Yeah, that's like, that's like, I guess the part of the coach is to encourage them to do the thing that will help the end result. Yeah, we just don't have control the end result. So if they got that much, ****, that's a little bit of a testimonial right there. That's a little bit of result. And then I can inches me towards. I can at least start charging for something.
[47:43] Valerie: Yeah.
[47:44] Emeroy: Yeah. I don't know what the pricing is for coaching, so.
[47:46] Valerie: Oh, no, it's okay.
[47:48] Emeroy: Yeah.
[47:49] Valerie: All right, cool. So let's start to wrap it up. And this question will be, like, if you could tell if you can go back and teach your past self any lesson or any give them any words of wisdom, what would it be?
[48:08] Emeroy: I think the main one would be patience. Yeah. I feel like I've answered this before, but I feel like my answers have changed as time goes on. Patience, really? Which is because. Yeah, just patience. Because I feel like a lot of my anger stemmed from my lack of patience. I wanted the thing now, like, or. Or lack of patience to listen to the other person. Like, no, you're wrong. Let's do it my way is the only way. Like, that is that kind of. Is my kind of, like, thinking from the ego. Yeah. Like, and then not just tell them, but show them. Like, try to show them. Like, if I can do, like, you know, Christmas Carol style. Like, this is the future of what happens if you're not patient and this is what the actions will become and. Yeah. Because that ultimately, patience leads into the long. Lets people go into the long play of business relationships, because that way, I'm not trying to, like, I want this thing now and then, like, no, this, like, how I approached my dance company, like, okay, I know we're not going to earn **** now, but I know within five years we'll have something and we'll have. We're earning. We're earning profit now. So I'm trying to move to a place where, like, I'm paying all my dancers, so. And then regardless of what that looks like, so there's other options that I'm looking at, but, yeah, patience. Definitely patience.
[49:32] Valerie: Okay, and then final question. What are you looking forward to in the next couple of years? The most.
[49:37] Emeroy: What am I looking forward to the next couple of years? Oof. Um. What am I looking forward to? I mean, I think the main thing I'm looking forward to is obviously watching my son grow up, seeing him. I'm just in awe of him every time I see him of, like, who he's being to seeing. Like, I mean, he's a thousand times cooler than I was. He's a thousand times more patient, more forgiving, and, like, my goal as a parent is just to make sure that he's happy with himself and that he's not an *******. Two things. And then I think he's. I think we're doing a good job because he's very, like. Is very sweet. Yeah, that's, like, the main thing. Everything else, I don't know. Like, I'm just. I'm unknown. There's several projects in the pipeline. I just feel like every year there's been some sort of project that forces my companies to level up somehow. And it's stressful, but it's. But at the end of it, when we finish, it's like, it's. We're where we made it. And I think the next one. I know in the next two years, we're probably going to do another self produced show. The last one we did was our first show ever. None of us had experience in putting together a show, and we sold it out. So I'm like, do you want to do it again? I have a feeling we'll do it. I mean, in the next two years, I would love for us to start booking our first performances out of state somewhere or even ****, I would love to. Like, it goes back. I want to hand checks to my dancers.
[51:10] Valerie: Yeah.
[51:10] Emeroy: That's the thing I'm excited for. But I don't know. The main thing that's pretty solid right now, seeing my son grow. But seeing my companies do great as well. But it's being a dad, like, seeing your kid grow up to be, like, I'd say a better person than you, I think, is the most satisfying thing.
[51:27] Valerie: Yeah, very cool.
[51:29] Emeroy: Yeah.
[51:29] Valerie: All right, well, thank you, Amaroy, for being here today.
[51:32] Emeroy: Yeah, thanks for having me.
