[00:00] Valerie: Rise, renew, reconnect. Welcome to from the Ashes, a podcast where every story ignites hope and healing. Before we dive into today's episode with Lillian Cooper, I want to share something special. After our main recording, Lily called me back to discuss her personal experiences with topical steroid withdrawal and the challenges she faced. Make sure to stay tuned after the main episode for this valuable and insightful conversation.
[00:39] Valerie: All right, so welcome back to from the ashes. This is your host, Valerie Beck. And today I have a really special guest, my friend, Lily Cooper. We met at a women's day event by a mutual friend, Vanessa, and really clicked and found out that we're both from the east coast, both dancers. And so, yeah, I've been really excited to bring Lily onto the podcast to tell her story. She has a really powerful healing story, and I am excited to hear what she has to say. So welcome, Lily.
[01:15] Lili: Thanks, Val, for having me. I love. I love that you do podcasts. That you're doing a podcast is so dope.
[01:22] Valerie: Thank you. Yeah, and I'm not. I just started it, so I feel like I'm still getting into the groove, and I'm like, did I say that right? Did I say that wrong? But I forgot. So Lily is a registered nurse with a drip iv. And her nursing journey is something that I've been very interested in because we know that there's, like, since COVID and beyond, the healthcare industry has been really stressing its workers to breaking point. And, Lily, I think you have a lot to say about that. So I definitely want to tap into that story. And you have also dipped into the world of sound healing and holistic health. And so we'll be going into that also in a little bit. So from the ashes is about rising from the ashes of crises, of burnout and going into that inner healing journey. So the first thing I want to ask you, Lily, is if you could share your from the ashes story.
[02:22] Lili: Wow. So, my journey, I guess I'll fast forward it. I started. I grew up on the east coast in New Jersey. I did my undergrad nursing school up in Boston, Massachusetts, and I graduated in 2002. It feels like way back when, when I started out in Boston, I was able to take a job opportunity to be a travel nurse in 2005. And so that's what brought me out here to California in 2000, 2005, I bopped around a little bit. San Diego, then to the Bay Area in 2007. And then I actually moved down here to Long beach in 2021. I was only a travel nurse for like, two or three years. And then I took another staff position up in one of the larger teaching hospitals in San Francisco in the Bay Area. So my specialty was med surg telemetry. So basically, if a patient, if an adult, 18 and over, came to the hospital and they needed to stay overnight or a few days, and they needed a heart monitor, then they came to my unit. Majority of my bedside career, I was the bedside nurse for about 13 years. So I worked night shift, twelve hour shifts for 13 years. I didn't know what a circadian rhythm was until like 2000, like 16, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, the twelve hour shifts is crazy. Then I went through a healing crisis in 2015. When I was younger, I was diagnosed with eczema, allergies, and, you know, all that trifecta. So they prescribed you topical steroids for the skin and, you know, on and off. I had been using it for 30 plus years, up until 2015, when they basically stopped working. The prescribed one that I was using, it wasn't working anymore. And the next step that at the time, my doctors told me is like, oh, you try this biologic, which, you know, is medical term for, like, low dose chemotherapy. And in my mind, that seems like a ridiculous concept for, you know, for an inflammatory process. You don't give chemotherapy, but apparently they do. And so I said, no, thank you. And that was the last time I saw that dermatologist. And then I went cold turkey, which I do not recommend. I do not recommend. But within a week, my body was in full steroid withdrawal, and the process took me over a year to recover. I lost, you know, two thirds of my hair. I lost my eyebrows three times. My period turned off for, like, about eight months. My body went 180. Control, all, delete, restart. And it was the most traumatic experience I've ever been through in my life. And this whole time while, you know, I was on, I was on disability from my night shift job, and then I went for this treatment, and I ended up getting better in like, month nine, month ten. And I attempted to go back to my twelve hour night shift job, and my body just couldn't do it anymore. It couldn't sustain anymore without that consistent, you know, pharmaceutical. Pharmaceutical is the word. And so I had to make a decision at the time. This is in 2015, 2016. And I ended up, they're like, basically, if you can't fulfill your contract that you signed, then we either have to, you know, change departments or you might not have to work here anymore. I was like, oh, great. You know what I mean? So I ended up switching departments to a day job as case manager. With that one, I basically, from nine to five, coordinate with patients, insurance companies and, you know, try to get them care once they discharge home from the hospital, whether they just had surgery, whether they need, you know, some medical equipment, medical, you know, like, all these things. I had to help coordinate that. And I learned so much in the two, like, two and a half years that I was a case manager, going from bedside nurse, twelve hour night shifts, not knowing anything that goes on on the other side of discharging from home. And I learned a lot about our insurance companies, especially here in the United States, the way western, our western medical model is here. I can't speak for other countries, but we do a lot of extra that a lot of countries do not do. And it was like my, at one point, my body just didn't align anymore. And then literally two months before COVID hit in 2020, January 2020, I went to my manager. I was like, you know what? It's been great, but my body's breaking down again, and I can't keep going back and forth. I had already gone out two additional times on disability, short term, to kind of get back, you know, since I went for that long run. And I'm like, I can't do this. My body's just. It's no longer aligned with this job anymore. So I have to go. And then literally two months later, in March of 2020, is when the pandemic hit and everything went on lockdown and.
[07:18] Valerie: Yeah, so then what happens? Were you just not working at the time?
[07:23] Lili: Yes, I wasn't. I ended up taking a little bit of a sabbatical, if you will, and I ended up taking out my pension early. So the full thing, the only thing about that is that I had to forfeit a big chunk because I had asked for it all at one time instead of, you know, like, for the rest of, you know, 20 years, 30 years, however, they allocated out. And so in. During that time, my body was still recovering again physically from the steroid withdrawal. I wasn't in the acute phase. The acute phase of steroid withdrawal is like. It's basically hell, but then afterwards, your body, you have a whole new body. So you have to figure out all your new sensitivities. You have to just read a new manual. It's crazy. And so it was around this time, fall of 2020, going into 2021, that I found myself taking a sound healing course the way I found my way to that one. The gentleman who runs it up in the Bay Area, his name is David, and he's been a sound healer for 30 plus years. And he has a school. He teaches, he runs a store, he does an online, you know, conference. Like, this man literally does it all. And he had posted up, oh, if anybody wants to do work study in exchange for classes. And I thought that the work study was just for a class here and a class there that I could choose. And I get there and he's like, oh, actually, this is a six month program for sound healing. And I was like, I'm not doing anything else. Yeah, let's do it. You know, it is what, it's what it is. And I had no idea what I was signing up for.
[09:01] Valerie: Wow. So you just kind of went for it and he said yes.
[09:04] Lili: Yeah. Uh huh. Okay. Yeah.
[09:07] Valerie: So did you have any idea of what, like, holistic healing or sound healing? All of that world?
[09:13] Lili: No, absolutely not. My introduction into the world of sound healing, a friend of mine had suggested, like, a sound bath that they run in San Francisco. And he had actually moved his location from San Francisco to a different part of the Bay Area in the last year. But I went to one of his old location, you know, you know, face to face. And then I went to a second one that was just, like, literally all gong. The way the frequency hit my body and the way my body felt. Like, the next few days after that, I'm like, oh, this is crazy. Like, I was able to get better quality sleep, you know, like, my body was able to do more healing after these two events that I had gone to. And I had looked a little bit up on YouTube when I was really going through it, when I actually got to learn about, like, the nuts and bolts of, like, sound healing, sound frequency. And he really breaks it down and gives a really good history and, you know, like, background and things. Like, there is some class prep work that I was like, wow, I didn't know about that stuff. Stuff. Fast forward to 2021. I was living in Berkeley at the time, and my rent was just getting a little too high, and I don't know how long I could keep this up without a proper job. And I wasn't trying to go back to the hospital, so, true story. I was walking down one of the main strips in Berkeley, and I ended up walking behind this young man. He was wearing a t shirt, and on the back of his t shirt, it said, long beach dragon boat race. And I called my girl up automatically. She grew up in LA, and I'm like, what do you know about Long beach? She's like, oh, yeah, it's really similar. Berkeley. It's a similar vibe. You should go check it out. And I was like, done. And so literally the next week, I had rented a car, put half of my stuff in storage, and put the rest of the stuff in the backseat. And I drove down to Long beach, and I posted up in a hotel for like, two months. And then I found an Airbnb. And while I was down there in the hotels, I had made the decision to do a twelve week parasite cleanse.
[11:16] Valerie: Okay?
[11:18] Lili: All I know is that I was going along beach to do parasite cleanse. I had no plans for a job, no plans for, you know, how long I was going to stay there or where I was going to end up. But I was like, you know what? This part I know that I have to do. I feel like I got to do this for further healing physically. And shortly after I finished it, I ended up doing cold call to this one clinic that was less than a mile away. I'm like, you guys need a nurse? They're like, do you do iv's? I'm like, I do iv's. They're like, but do you do iv's?
[11:46] Valerie: I'm like, do iv's?
[11:48] Lili: And so they're like, dude, you're hired. Same day they hired me, and the next day I was. I mean, the next week they oriented me and I started my new job.
[11:56] Valerie: So, okay, and you've been here ever since?
[12:00] Lili: And I've been here ever since. Yeah. And that clinic closed last year, and then, you know, a few of us got laid off, so that's a new experience. But I ended up doing another cold call to another company that does a similar, like, right now I do, like, vitamin infusions, like b twelve injections and Myers IV cocktails, and nothing like bedside nursing, nothing in hospital western medical, nothing like that one. And so I'm like, do you guys need a nurse? And they're like, actually, we need a nurse for a new Long beach location. And I was like, I am free. Sign up. Sign me up.
[12:31] Valerie: Nice.
[12:32] Lili: And that's my story.
[12:34] Valerie: Thank you for sharing that story. I have a lot of questions because I am an ayurvedic practitioner, right? I'm totally into holistic health. I did not used to be that way because growing up in Long island, didn't hear about yoga ever. Never heard of, like, nutrition as medicine. Never heard of doing meditation. Not part of vocabulary. Back when I was growing up and probably similar for you. So what was your attitude towards, and what was your. How did. How did you navigate your belief system as you were shifting from, you know, western medicine?
[13:11] Lili: I'll be honest with you, Val. I went through a little bit of an identity crisis. I keep you 100 because I, you know, this is what I was trained to do. I was trained to know about labs and know about, you know, how to do an EKG, how to draw blood, how to, you know, do all these things. And the fact that, you know, now, physically, I can't do. I literally had an identity crisis, and I was super. Like, I was super mad. I was. I was just super. I was super duper mad and just. I felt just very betrayed. Betrayed and bewildered. Okay, so, you know, I. I've been able to navigate that. You know, it's a little bit better. I don't know if you can tell with my hair, but I swear it's a little bit better. But I found my way to the idea also of ayurveda when I did an online course back in 2016 when I was going through the run, the real tough part of topical soil withdrawal, I did an online course with IIN in New York. And it's basically like a health coach.
[14:14] Valerie: Like a whole new international institute.
[14:17] Lili: IIN, international Institute of Nutrition. Okay, so, like, you have, like, David Wolf, he did a thing, and, like, you have, like, all these different philosophies of nutrition, wellness. You know, they talked about sound healing. They talked about acupuncture. They talked about ayurvedic practice. I had never heard of Ayurveda before until I took this course. And I'm like, start to incorporate it into my own healing. The principles make sense. You know, the principles work. The fact that I fell hard in that respect, going through the health crisis, was able to kind of bring me to new ways of medicine, to new forms and philosophies of medicine, which I'm super grateful for and I still use today. But, yeah.
[15:03] Valerie: What made you actually want to be a nurse in the first place?
[15:07] Lili: When I was younger, I had. My asthma was really, really bad, and I used to use those inhalers that were like. It was so embarrassing, those balloon ones, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like an accordion. And so. But there was a point where it was really bad when I was super young, and they thought that I had cystic fibrosis. So my mom, she would have to take me into children's hospital in New York City for, like, a series of different tests over maybe a couple months the. The test, basically, for that is they put these little pads on your arm, and they have needles in them that could detect, like, the amount of sodium or whatever it is to see if you have cystic fibrosis or not. And while I was sitting there, you know, my mom, she didn't know what to do. But the nurses, they were always super cool, and they're like, hey, you want some more juice? You want to cook? Like, they were just totally cool. They made me feel like it was nothing. Like I was just, you know, like, they made me feel calm and all the nice. All the nice things that, you know, while you have needles in your arms. So, my dermatologist, she was also super cool when I was younger. So I always knew that I wanted to do something in the medical realm, whether it was actually going into dermatology myself or. Eventually, I found out that the dermatologist that I really enjoyed when I was younger, she went to nursing school first, and then she went back to school to become an MD and do that thing. So I had initially gone into my undergraduate with nursing major and pre med, and then I saw all the books for pre med, and then I saw the books for nursing. I'm like, you know, let me go nursing. Let's see where it goes. But, yeah, yeah, the nursing thing, it felt. It felt right anyway, while I was going through undergrad, so I was like, the sciences and stuff? Yeah.
[16:54] Valerie: Yeah. So this whole identity crisis thing, it's no joke, because it. Because our belief systems come from our upbringing and our culture and our environment, and then all of a sudden, when it doesn't work for us, everyone else is still acting as if it does work. Right? So there can be a little bit of disconnect, and I'm sure you did. But did you find yourself coming up against any resistance to you doing a different way or trying different things?
[17:30] Lili: I wouldn't call it so much resistance, but I would call it more caution just because the people that. That I was closest to who knew my journey and my story, because I didn't share a lot of it while I was going through it. But, like, with my mom and a few of my close friends, like, they were hesitant, where I'm like, no, I'm not going back to the doctor and stuff like that. They're like. But I never got, like, so super resistance, just more like questioning, you know what I mean? Because, you know, like, when your ****** sense is tingling and you don't feel right about something, you know, nine times, ten times out of ten you're actually probably right.
[18:05] Valerie: Yeah.
[18:06] Lili: But we're not taught to do that. We're taught to rely on these systems. And then, you know, like, medicine is medicine, and when. When you actually encounter evidence of, you know, that goes against that and you start to question the norm, and then, you know, I don't know. It's just a whole. It's just a whole other path that I feel only you. That path is for you.
[18:32] Valerie: Yeah.
[18:32] Lili: And then once you go down that path and you ask all the questions and you bring back the evidence, that's when you can introduce that to people and be like, yeah, see, that was. Right.
[18:41] Valerie: Yeah. No, yeah. It is very personal, I feel like, because only you can do that inner work for yourself, and that's actually, I think, the core of where the healing comes from. So we did touch upon this a little bit already in terms of talking about your breaking points, but it also sounds like you had certain benchmarks where your body had a breaking point, but your mind probably didn't realize it yet. So how many times did it take, do you think, before your mind started to catch up?
[19:23] Lili: I think, yeah, I would say it took me after I did the initial comeback from surah, withdrawal from that eight months, and then I went into a new department, and I feel like it took me, like, two times going back out on short term disability that I was like, well, you know what? I'm just not. No longer aligned, and I can't keep going back and forth. It's exhausting. And then I'm putting the department behind, and, you know, like this, all the things, like, I'm putting myself behind and just. It just doesn't make any sense anymore. You want to make it work. That's the thing, though. Like, in your mind, you're like, well, there must be something else I could do. And that's, you know, that. That's where we have to actually, you know, you got to be honest with yourself. You got to be real with yourself. And, like, no, my body is telling me that this doesn't work. Stop trying to make it work. You know what I mean? You have to really sit down with yourself and have an honest conversation. So I would say it took me, like, two or three times from my body to talk back and be like, you know what? Stop. Just stop. Just stop. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard because you also think of other people. Like, you don't want to let other people down, but you don't realize it by saying that you're actually, like, putting yourselves on the back burner and that you gotta put yourself in the forefront and, you know, we're not taught to do that. You know what I mean?
[20:42] Valerie: Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about, and which makes me want to dig a little bit deeper into that to you. Where do you think that desire to please other people over your, like, taking care of yourself comes from?
[21:01] Lili: So, um, I was, well, I am, my mom adopted me when I was two months old and she didn't adopt any other children, so it was just mommy and me. And like, she always worked two jobs and she always worked hard, you know, it's like she was grinding through that and I feel like I was the only one that, you know, would see her, like, you know, when she was zonked out, you know what I mean? Or when she was just like, tired and she just needed a break. So that one. So I wanted to, I guess I kind of make her proud and, you know, do that thing and be successful in my career. I feel like my temperament in general, it's like I always want the people around me to be, to be happy, you know, like, I always want there to be a balance. However, when I focus on the balance of other people and then I lose sight of the balance of my own body and my own health and things like this, and that's where my body starts to talk back. I didn't realize this, you know, this connection until my thirties when my body actually broke down with all these things. So I, I feel like I've always kind of been not so much a people pleaser, but I just want there to be peace wherever I'm at. If there's not peace and there's something that I could do to make it a little bit better, I'll do that, you know, but if it's to my detriment, that's where, that's why I would usually fall short and not realize it, that I was doing it to myself, you know what I mean?
[22:22] Valerie: Yeah, absolutely. Is this something that you have to work on to notice that pattern?
[22:27] Lili: Uh huh. And you know what, it's funny, and this ain't really woo woo, but I would say, like, when I figured out my natal chart, I don't know if, if you've done your natal chart before with like, you, sun and your moon and you're rising and, you know, the thing, there is some truth to that. There is, there is some really good bits and pieces to that to figure out who you are. There's a mat, it's, it's math, you know, it's not just like, oh, the stars. There's a science of that. That's an actual science.
[22:56] Valerie: Yeah. I recently did my human design chart because I've been coming again up against what seems to be, like, a bit more of a, like a karmic problem where it's just like, where I don't know, like, I know the problem and I don't know why things aren't happening because I'm. It just feels like I'm spinning my wheels. It's like, okay, I don't really believe in this stuff, but I'm curious. I just want to see and, like, what came up in terms of, like, the description of, like, the type of person that I am and kind of the role that I'm meant to play in the world aligns a lot and resonates a lot with me. So there's some. Something to it.
[23:36] Lili: No, definitely. I was just at. I was just at a recent function where one of our sisters opened her acupuncture place. Shout out to urban Zal. But there was. There was a woman there who was talking about human design, and she uses it, I think, in, like, the school setting or something. She uses it with kids, but she, you know, we were all talking about what ours were, and I don't know, the time that I was born, so I didn't get, like, the full chart for, for both my natal chart and for that one. But I know that I'm under the category of a manifesto, and she literally, like, broke me down and, oh, you're this, you're this, you're this. And I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes, I am. Totally read me fulfilled. And I was like, this is great because this is, like, true. And this is a science, you know, it's not just, like, you know, from, from nothing. Like this actually applies. So with me, if I don't find joy in it, then it's like, then I'm on the struggle bus, you know what I mean? And I'll, like, power through, but, you know, it'll, like, I'll be miserable. You know what I mean? But if I find joy in it, if I work with people who are just, like, totally outstanding and, you know, like, it's a good crew, then I'm going to have a good time, then I'm going to do my job well. But if I don't find joy in my job. Yeah, no good.
[24:54] Valerie: And I think it's really good at pulling together those patterns. And the reason why there is some kind of logic behind it is because it's looking at behavioral patterns and beliefs and how those influence your outcomes. And certain types of people have certain patterns that will make life easier or harder for them. Right.
[25:14] Lili: Yeah.
[25:15] Valerie: Yeah. I'm a projector. Apparently, I am not meant to power through either.
[25:22] Lili: Yeah.
[25:22] Valerie: And I'm not meant to. Not meant to necessarily assert myself in every situation. I'm actually meant to be invited.
[25:29] Lili: Yeah. Yeah, that's such a. And that's such a real thing, too, because, like, I will literally, like, stand there and just, like, not say anything until somebody asks me a question or invites me to something. Like, I didn't realize that that's an actual thing to be invited into a situation, be invited into a conversation. You know what I mean? Like, but, you know, that is. That's a characteristic that falls under a certain category. And I was like, so fascinating. Yeah.
[25:56] Valerie: Yeah. Okay, so with that in mind, I think I want to shift a little bit, and I want to talk a bigger picture of how your story fits into the shortcomings of our healthcare system and what you have seen. If you can talk with relative open honesty, I think. Yeah. Without having to, like, you know, bash anyone or anything like that. I just. I'm curious because, you know, my sister is a nurse, and she's, like, gung ho into the western medical system, but she also tells me stories about how, like, in grad school, you know, if you miss, like, a day, you could be, like, removed from the program because, like, you're not showing that you're capable of sticking to it or whatever. You know, like, stuff like that, where it's, like, there's a little bit of toxic culture. A little bit. And so I just want to hear from someone who has been in it and has also left it.
[26:57] Lili: I've had. I've had a lot of experience in different hospital settings. I've had experience in the larger teaching hospitals that are affiliated with, like, local universities and things and just have, like, a 500 to, you know, 800 bed facility capacity. And then I've also worked at smaller, you know, community hospitals where you have to, like, call the doctor at home and wake them up. It's fun, too. When it comes to medicine in the United States, I think we really. We really come a long way in terms of, like, like, the trauma events and things like that, you know, breaking bones or, you know, just emergency things. Like, yeah, we're pretty good. Yeah, we're pretty good at, like, the quick thing when it comes to the more chronic illnesses, shall we say? We don't do as well as we could. There's a lot of things that people don't know or they just don't understand about the western medicine world. Insurance is one of them. And, oh, man, some of the stuff that, like, they'll approve and they won't approve it. Like, there was one time I had a patient who just needed oxygen for maybe, like, a week to go home, but they. The insurance company denied them the oxygen tank, and they gave the okay for, like, two or $3,000 for them to stay in the hospital for one more night. You know what I mean? So things like this. Things like this are a little bit backwards. And then there were, like, a few years where I work with a nonprofit, and we went on international trips to Panama. And right when you got off the plane, you got an insurance card that covered you for 90 days. You know what I mean? And if you had any medical issues, you just present this card and you're covered. You know what I mean? So, yeah, western medicine, you know, unfortunately, we're in. We're in a. We're in a holding pattern where if you have something that's not right and you go to the doctor and get a pill, as opposed to actually sitting down, taking a thorough history, and going over. What are you doing? What are you eating? What's your quality of sleep? What are you drinking? This is not being taken into account. It's just a really quick. Okay, you got a symptom here. Here's a prescription for the symptom. And it bitten a lot of us in the butt. Unfortunately, we found out the hard way, and it can be different. A lot of people are starting to go down or have been going down more holistic routes. And with the dawn of social media, they are now getting their stories out unfiltered to tell how they did it, how I cured myself from cancer, how I cured my fibromyalgia, how I cured myself. So many things. So many things. So, yeah, I could totally get on my soapbox. But, you know, I know that there are some times where that's not helpful as well. So I don't want the message to be clouded. But there are many, many advancements that are outside of the western model that are coming to the forefront and that are starting to become more available to. To the community, such as acupuncture, such as lymphatic massage, such as IV therapy, yoga. These practices, they're not just for the wellness buffs and gurus. You know what I mean? When you do it on a regular basis for what you need, it for then you could reap the benefits very easily for you.
[30:32] Valerie: Specifically, when you were in the hospital setting, you mentioned that your body broke down several times. Did it ever occur to you also that your mind may be affected, or was it affected, and then, if so, like, yeah. Did you ever make that connection?
[30:55] Lili: Not while I was there. I made that connection after the fact.
[30:59] Valerie: Okay.
[31:00] Lili: Because, you know, my job was to come in and to facilitate, you know, people being discharged from the hospital. Nobody wants to be in the hospital, you know what I mean? You know, even for a day, you know, let alone, like, weeks. Sometimes we have patients that were there for months that need to be discharged to a skilled nursing facility, a rehab, things like that. So I had to be in charge of coordinating that one. So, in my mind, my purpose was to help these patients by facilitating ABC, the EFG. Whatever I had to do, my focus was on that. My focus wasn't on myself and what it was doing to my body, mind, and spirit, because literally, my mind and spirit were just aching, aching every day. Every day. But, no, at the time, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't put it together like that.
[31:51] Valerie: Yeah. You know, when did you realize that it was affecting you?
[31:56] Lili: After I left the hospital.
[31:58] Valerie: Okay.
[32:00] Lili: After it. You know, hindsight is 2020.
[32:03] Valerie: Yeah.
[32:04] Lili: You know what I mean? When you're actually away for a sustained amount of time, you know, like, the first time I was out, my. My whole point, you know, of getting better and doing what I had to do was to get back to my job that I was going to do till I was ready to retire and then retire at 50 or 60 years old. That's. That's what nurses do. That's what. That's the plan. That's a trajectory, whatever. Whatever it goes. But, no, I wasn't in my plans anymore. Yeah, I had to pivot, and, you know, I had no choice but to listen to my body.
[32:37] Valerie: Did anyone or any system in the hospital get in the way of your healing or get in the, like, like, if you wanted a day off and you were rejected, that, or anything like that?
[32:50] Lili: No, no, no, no. There was none of that. Um, they understood that I had. I was going through whatever my body was going through, that it was a true medical issue, whether. And it's funny, too, because the dermatologist that I ended up working with, because I went to a clinic that did, like, this special crude coal tar therapy that actually got me better, but when I would talk to them, and I'd be like, this is from steroids. This is from taking steroids for over three decades. They looked at me and they're like, like, they didn't say that to me, but you know what I mean? Like, but I never got any pushback from anybody, my managers or anything like that.
[33:31] Valerie: That's good.
[33:32] Lili: Yeah, yeah, I was grateful for that one because they could have easily been like the only thing that I was a little bit upset about and actually yelled at my man. I did, I had a moment and I was with my union rep, my manager, and, you know, one of the hospital, what do you call human resources, and we all had a meeting about what are we going to do with Lilly? Because she can't, she can't perform, she can't do a twelve hour shift like she wrote that she could in the initial contract. And so in my mind, you know, my manager could have told me way months ago, you know, if you can't fulfill your, your contract, then, you know, we got to do something else. But that statement or, you know, something to that effect was never said. And then when it finally came out in the meeting, that, that was the actual, that was the actual crossroads. The crossroads that I was at in that moment before I had switched apartments. Like, I yelled, I yelled at these people. I don't yell at anybody, I don't get mad. And I literally just blew up. I stormed out and like, luckily my union rep, he was, he was super duper cool. So he followed me and he talked me down and he, like, I was literally hyperventilating. Like, I was really, I had a moment. Okay, but, um, but, yeah, it was like, it was a moment of, it was a cathartic moment that I think had to happen in order for me to be like, something needs to change. What's, what is this? You know, like, yeah, well, yeah, that was, that was a big turning point, that meeting where I, yeah, I yelled at, I never yelled anybody. Oh, my God. I, I'm not embarrassed or anything. It had to come out somehow. But I'm like, you know what, be upfront with me. If you, if something's going on that's about me and my job, it's like, tell me upfront. Like, people like pussyfoot a little bit sometimes and like, I get it, but yeah, that was a moment.
[35:25] Valerie: In ayurveda, I feel like you're pitta type. Do you think that's true? Like memory?
[35:32] Lili: No. Well, I didn't, I think my body is saying that I am, but I usually am not. Like, when we're in conversation. So I don't know. I think I have the potential to be, but I haven't explored a. A fire romance. I have a lot of air. I know that one. Yeah.
[35:51] Valerie: Yeah. The vata.
[35:52] Lili: Mm hmm. Yeah. But that's the thing. I think I heard after I had. I had done the whole question thing, and there was a thing, was like, everybody thinks that they're a vata, but they're not. And I was like, I don't know. I just can't. I forget. Yeah. So I have to do this in color. Yeah.
[36:09] Valerie: It's hard to tell because most of us are carrying our own life, but a lifetime of imbalance, you know, with most of those tendencies tending towards vata because of, like, just the energy of the society, so. But, you know, it's more important that, you know, like, what your imbalances are now, because that's what you need to deal with. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, that being said, where. Where are you in your healing journey right now, from your own perspective?
[36:40] Lili: Well, I was doing good, and then this month, I don't know, for some reason, my body's just on one right now. It feels like I'm having a bit of a sunburn. Other than that, it's been pretty good. I've been able to sustain this job since August of last year, and I'm not working full time hours. I'm not doing the full time, full time twelve hour shifts that I'm used to doing, but I'm still able to pay rent, pay for food, things like that. And I'm starting to do more with sound healing and things like that. I'm doing a bunch of new stuff and navigating it, you know, at the same time. So it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a study, if you will. It's a little bit of a journey that I'm learning, but, yeah, I I think right now I am definitely more aware and more present in the moment of how my body reacts to what I'm saying, what I'm doing, what I'm putting into it, what I'm not saying, what I'm not doing. I'm I'm more aware. I'm definitely more aware and more, more honest. And, you know, if if I need to stay home and, you know, cancel plans, like, I'll do that in a heartbeat. I really don't care if. If I have to order, you know, some tom yum soup to get some good heat in my body, and it's like 68 degrees out. I've been doing that literally for the past three days, and my body's responded well to that one. So literally learning as I go. It's crazy.
[38:03] Valerie: Yeah. And just learning to tune in, too, I think that's really important, right?
[38:06] Lili: Tuning in. That's it. That's it right there. Learning to tune in is new, but kind of fun. Yeah, I don't mind it at all. Yeah.
[38:18] Valerie: I want to go back to the sound healing a little bit because I'll confess I've had more disturbing sound bats and I've had. Good.
[38:31] Lili: And tell me more about that.
[38:34] Valerie: Yeah, so I love music. Such a huge fan of music. Music moves the soul, and, like, when something is well orchestrated, it's just so beautiful. And I feel like that's healing enough. So when it comes to sound bath and people are doing it more for kind of breaking down the effect of primal sounds almost. I think there is a tendency to get carried away with overloading the system with this big experience. And for people like me who might just be sensitive to that, it can be a little bit harsh. And so, yeah, I just want to hear what your approach is to sound bath and what you've seen other people also, how they have responded to sound healing.
[39:26] Lili: I think in response to your response, if I may, I feel that, like, artists and musicians respond differently to sound baths as opposed to people who are not in that world. Like, they're used to a beat, they're used to a rhythm, they're used to a melody, they're used to how that hits the ear and when it doesn't hit the ear from an actual true practitioner musician with that musician background and whatnot, it doesn't quite hit right. I don't know if that. If that resonates for you or not or if that sounds right to you, but that's been my experience over the last. Over the last few years, especially with, like, dancers and musicians. Because, yeah, I mean, like, I've been. Because when I came down here to Long Beach, I just went to sound bath after sound bath and, like, tried, like, different people. I went into LA, I went to one at the beach. I went, you know, to all different studios and things, just to, you know, just to truly dive into that realm. Because when I did my sound healing course, it was right as Covid had started, so we couldn't do proper practice and, you know, things like that. That was normally a part of the curriculum and we had to wear masks and everything. So it was very, very sterile. You know what I mean? Like, we really couldn't get the full experience. So I was trying to immerse myself in as much as I could when I got down here so I could get that experience through that one, so I can start my own and kind of put my own thing together.
[40:52] Valerie: Because you're also a dancer, so I'm. I am, yeah.
[40:56] Lili: So I kind of. I kind of bring that a little bit. Just, like, ideas from that one as well. Like, I do like to do, like, certain things in a certain kind of order, but I do that not so much because I have, like, experience as a dancer, but just because I. The way that I've experienced soundbass and I've seen other people experience soundbaths that particular order. You get really great experiences when you come to a sound bath that I facilitate. I'm going to take you through breath work first. And to me, it's really subtle breath work, but when you're actually doing it and you're hyper oxygenating the body, that's actually getting rid of extra energy, because basically, when you go into a sad bath, you're moving energy with sound. When the different frequencies from the different instruments at the body, that's moving energy, you know, whether. Whether you want or not, you're moving energy. So doing breath work first, before I start using my instruments and things, I found people have had some really, really great experiences from my sound bath. So I really, like, I watch everybody. Like, I literally. I feel like I'm back on night shift. I watch how people breathe. I watch how people move. You know, this last sound bath, this woman, she literally was, like, really, like, doing this thing, and I thought that she was, like, releasing, like, some sadness or some grief, and turns out in the end, she had a totally different experience. But it was a lovely experience that she had. I don't know if I can say it on here, but it was funny. Well, she said that she basically had an orgasm. What? It is. So. And I thought that I was watching something totally different, and she said that she had that, and I was like, okay. But, yeah, for me, I try to be mindful of how I use the instruments. And, like, if somebody is, like, cringing away from it a little bit because it's too much on them, or if they're totally, like, going into a dreamy state and they get a big smile on their face, you know what I mean? So I try to bring a little bit of my nursing background of just observation of how the body is reacting to the frequencies and to the instruments into when I do my own sound bath. So I try to be. I try to be mindful of that. I try to bring that mindfulness to when I do my sessions, and it seemed to work pretty okay.
[43:29] Valerie: You know, I honestly think that with a lot of these modalities, who the practitioner is makes. Also makes the difference, like, a big difference.
[43:38] Lili: Yeah.
[43:38] Valerie: So I might need to show up to your sound bath at this point. You know?
[43:42] Lili: You know, like I said, when I went to a bunch of the sound baths, like, you know, like, they would, like, they would show up and they would be dressed in all white, and they had, you know, some beautiful headdress and something like that and all these beautiful instruments. But when I laid down, when I tried to get in the moment and stuff, like, I don't know, like, I couldn't, like, allow my body to relax or, like, just something just didn't feel like I got 100% of what I was, you know, looking for. So I. Yeah, I mean, you gotta find somebody that kind of resonates, you know what I mean?
[44:10] Valerie: Yeah.
[44:11] Lili: It's not a one size suits all.
[44:12] Valerie: Kind of thing, but I've been also on this energy healing journey for a while. It's like, just realizing that it is really important to be picky about where you put yourself, who you surround yourself with, being very intentional about that.
[44:31] Lili: Yeah. Literally, everything has the potential to be an energy exchange. You know, even, like, bumping into somebody on the street, you know what I mean? If they got a funky way, you know, and they give you a mean look and stuff, and then now you feel funky, you know what I mean? Like, just little exchange like that. Like, everything could be a potential energy exchange. So I've learned to be very. Not very, but a lot more picky with where I put my energy and who I put my energy with. Because, like, there's some days where I'm just like, I can't today. Absolutely not. And so I put my earbuds in. And it's funny, too, because people have. People have told me after the fact, like, I have, like, these. I got these, like, big old things.
[45:12] Valerie: Oh, nice.
[45:13] Lili: You know what I mean? And when I'm. When I'm in my zone, when I don't. And when I don't want to talk, not when I don't want to talk to anybody, I don't do it on purpose. But, you know, like, if I don't hear you, like. Like, I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but, like, maybe I just don't have energy for that day. So, yeah, it is what it is, but, yeah, energy. Energy has potential in every encounter so, yeah, yeah, I feel the same way.
[45:41] Valerie: Okay, so the last thing I want to talk about is a little bit more fun stuff. I want to hear about your dance journey. We didn't get to do our little dance battle at the event, but not yet.
[45:54] Lili: It's coming.
[45:55] Valerie: But you have mentioned that you do voguing and. And salsa.
[46:02] Lili: Mm hmm.
[46:03] Valerie: Yeah. So I want to hear your story about that.
[46:07] Lili: Okay. So, my professional world and my dance world are literally like two different entities. So when I was younger, you know, I did the trifecta, the ballet, tap, and jazz. And I started that out when I was really young. And then, you know, through elementary school and things like that, I was always taking classes and things like that when I got to high school. I don't know if you've ever seen, like, the ESPN cheerleading competitions. So I did that for three years. We went to Disney. You know, for my sophomore, junior, and senior year, we were top ten. It was dope. It was really, really dope. I really enjoyed that time. I really did. And that taught me discipline. That moment just taught me super discipline. And then when I went to nursing school, I did. I did a dance team, and we performed with the band at the football games and the basketball games, stuff like that. And then I had injured my knee. I had torn my ACL in undergrad.
[47:03] Valerie: Okay.
[47:04] Lili: And it was during a piece that I choreographed. I was like, no, but I didn't get it repaired. I never got the surgery for it because I wanted to walk with my class. So I just did a lot of physical therapy, but I couldn't do as much as I did back then. With me, fast forward to maybe 2003. I was already a year in as a new grad nurse, and all I was doing is going to work, coming home, eat, sleep, going to work, da da da da. So, my friend took me at the time, in 2003, to, like, a salsa event where there were performances and social dancing. And I saw this one company called Acha Imbachete, and I was like. Like, it was. It was like an aha moment. So, like, I signed up for classes. I ended up starting dancing with, you know, like, a beginner company, you know what I mean? And then from that point on, like, that was, like, the thing that kind of helped me ease into wherever I. Wherever I changed cities for my job. So my first city that I went to after I left my main hospital in Boston, Massachusetts, in 2005, I went to Baltimore, Maryland, for Johns Hopkins for an assignment as a travel nurse. And I immediately found the salsa places to go to. And then I found my little tribe there, and so I fell into, you know, like, that's my routine. If I wasn't at work, then I was going out dancing, you know what I mean? So that's, that's just how dances do. And so then I did that in San Diego. I ended up joining up with a company there in San Diego. And then when I moved up to the Bay area, I joined up with salsa company up in the Bay Area, and I ended up going on an international trip with that company to Germany, and we performed there. And then, you know, New York, La, we did a few, they call them congresses, so it's the congress, but, you know, it's basically like a weekend conference where people come from, like, all around the country and, you know, even internationally, and they teach workshops during the daytime. You have social dancing at nighttime and performances, you know, in the evening. So I did my little performance things with my, with my companies and things. So that's kind of how I fell into salsa. I've been dancing salsa for like 2021 years. One year left, one year less than I've been a nurse.
[49:26] Valerie: So how about voguing? Where'd that come from?
[49:30] Lili: Oh, voguing. So Vogue came into my life when I was in the Bay Area, and there's this, there's this wonderful angel. His name is Jacques, up in the Bay Area, and he taught his class called Logan tone. And it was in the area that I was working at. The studio was literally like a ten minute walk from me. So I would take his classes and I would just learn, like, the basics, you know what I mean? Like, called old way, just things like that. It just, it was just like a totally different genre from, from salsa, but it was just very, like, that's where I think, like, you know, the fire. Yeah. So that's like, you know, salsa has its own little, you know, fire, flame, little fuego there. And then Vogue had a totally different, you know, vibe, but still, you got a little bit of, got a little bit of fire there. So I just, I just learned that one. And then when I was working with a nonprofit back in, like, 2010, 2011, I actually taught, you know, very basic, basic, basic, basic Vogue classes when I was down in Panama. And also when I did another trip to India, too, did a very basic Vogue class. But, you know, I never, I never did any competitions or anything like that, so I didn't get very far into the scene. But, you know, like, I know the basics and stuff like that, and it's just a wonderful genre.
[50:52] Valerie: I just love it that's amazing. I want to see you work it. Have you been to?
[51:02] Lili: No. Well, I tell you, my shoes actually broke last time I went out salsa dancing. Cause I have these sneakers that I've had for, I would say, almost, like, 1516 years, and I could do all dancing in them. And then they just broke two weeks ago. So now I gotta get a new. Some new dance shoes. But, yeah, I mean, you can. You can. We can, you know, you can watch. Like, I'm just making excuses, but, yeah, yeah, I haven't, I haven't done, like, Runway. Runway, but, yeah, we can do a little dance kind of thing.
[51:38] Valerie: So, you know, as, as a dancer, as an artist, that dance has been a. A real saving presence. I would say. Yes, absolutely. I was feeling really challenged. For me, it was mentally mostly, like, depression and stuff, especially during grad school. And I would do the same thing as, like, I would study my *** off and go to class and do work and all that. And then, like, at night, I would go out dancing and then, like, go back home, like, 02:00 a.m. in the morning or whatever, and then do it again.
[52:19] Lili: Yes.
[52:20] Valerie: Yeah, yes, yeah, yes.
[52:23] Lili: Yeah.
[52:24] Valerie: But it just allowed me to see that I'm not just. Not just this machine that's just meant to do work and achieve things. Like, I also get to create things, and that was just so much more powerful. I felt so much more, like, and embodied and myself when I was out dancing than when I was at school, like, writing papers or whatever.
[52:52] Lili: Yeah.
[52:52] Valerie: So I'm really grateful for that experience.
[52:55] Lili: Absolutely.
[52:57] Valerie: It did make me see, like, you know, career isn't everything. You know, all of the stuff that we say that we have to do isn't everything. Oh, yeah.
[53:08] Lili: And you could be as crazy as you want. You could be as light as you want. You can, you can represent yourself in any way that you want to on the dance floor. And that's, that's just, you know, you could be everything and anything, you know, in one whole song, and, you know, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. But that creativity, once you hear that, you know, when you hear that beat, I don't care how crazy that sounds, but, like, it's just something that just does. You just speaks, it just speaks to your heart and, you know, like, your inner child comes out and just wants to just play and just, you know, like, do all the things, you know, that you can't do when you're, you know, at your nine to five, you know, like, punching a clock and whatnot. So I think we don't. I think people forget to exercise that creativity side of them and to get that. And, like, that's a great form of energy, working with whatever's on your mind or whatever's on your heart for that day. You just totally, just totally let it out in that moment, and you could. You could feel like a totally different person three minutes later, four minutes later.
[54:16] Valerie: Right on.
[54:17] Lili: Yeah. Yeah. Everybody needs to dance.
[54:21] Valerie: Everybody needs to dance. Create, you know, tap into that. I think if you're stuck and you don't feel like you have any, know, self expression, it's really hard to get yourself out of a dark place.
[54:36] Lili: Bring it up.
[54:37] Valerie: Yeah, yeah. Did you ever use dance to help you through your, like, your healing crisis?
[54:47] Lili: Help me through it? No, just because my body was so affected that there was. There were. There was, like, a good chunk of, like, three or four months where I couldn't even lie flat. You know what I mean? Like, when I had. I had started going to acupuncture at one point twice a week, and when I first started with her, I couldn't. I could only be at a 90 degree angle. I couldn't lie flat on her table. The first time I tried, I started to cry, and that was just really powerful for me. But luckily, she was super accommodating. She was super sweet, too. And she made me this little fort in the corner, and I have a picture of it I'll show you later on. But, like, she put, like, a little, like, red sheet and, like, you know, like a little bed sheet or whatnot. She put that up against a little cushion on the corner, and, you know, she, like, I was able to do, you know, the half an hour, the hour there with all the needles and everything at a 90 degree angle. So for me, that was. And that was another, you know, kick in the butt, too, because I was so physical, you know, dancing and everything. And my body was like, absolutely not. He needs to heal first. And, like, there were, you know, when my body started to come around, like, actually had nerve pain in my neck that I couldn't even do this. Like, I couldn't even drive my car because I couldn't turn my neck. My dancing had to take a backseat real quick. And that was super depressing for me that I couldn't move that energy in that way that I was so used to doing my body. You know, I couldn't straighten out my arms. I couldn't lie flat. That was huge for me. That was so depressing for me. I was in the funkiest of funks for so many months. But, you know, that's what this medication had been doing to my body for so long. It had turned off my adrenal glands and had been messing with my own cortisol production and, you know, basically telling my body not to do what it was designed to do for over three decades using this medication. So, like, the fact that I had to humble myself, literally, and be like, okay, I will step back. I won't move, you know, like, I can't go out every Friday for a few months. I can't do that. And I have to listen to my body, and I have to rest and recover. And that was. That was just hard. That, like, even my voice right now is getting, you know, a little weird, because, like, that. Like, you don't. You know, like, you don't talk about that part because that's, like. That's, like, your heart right there. You know what I mean? But the connection was so strong that that was. That was, like, one of the hardest parts for me, mentally, was not being able to do that, because when I would go out, I would see my friends, we would hug each other, we would just hold each other, you know what I mean? And, like, dancing with a partner, you're, you know, like, your partner dancing for pretty much the whole time. So, you know, like, you're holding hands. It's physical touch, the whole thing. And the fact that I couldn't even lie flat, let alone touch somebody or let alone that, let them touch me, that was so hard. But that makes me appreciate it even more now. So when I go out, I'll be like, okay, let's dance till I break my shoe. How about that?
[58:12] Valerie: Yeah.
[58:12] Lili: So.
[58:15] Valerie: Yeah, it's a blessing, you know? Yeah. And we have to remember just never to take it for granted.
[58:22] Lili: Nope, absolutely not. Because, yeah, there will be a point where you are, and you will be humbled. You know what I mean? And when you can't do the thing that you love to do, because you have to focus on yourself first. And healing, whatever part is being asked of you to be healed, that's coming up for healing, you got to focus on that first. And then, you know, you heal, you get back to. You get back to what makes you happy. But if that's what you're being called to do right now, take the time, do that, and then when you're ready, your body's ready, your mind and spirit already, and get back to it. That's it.
[58:58] Valerie: I hear that message for myself. I love it. I think that's great. I think we should wrap up there. Any last thoughts? Any takeaways? Anything that you want the world to know?
[59:10] Lili: Don't take everything so serious, because if you do, you know, the universe will humble you in ways that will be like, oh, yeah, that's right. And then you have to do a lot of inner work. And don't be afraid to do the inner work, too. I think we don't know how to do the inner work because nobody taught us how to do the inner work because nobody taught our parents how to do the inner work. So we got to kind of figure it out on our own. But if you are going through something and it's hard potatoes, my best advice is to find somebody who's already been through it and to ask them all the questions and, you know, like, you know, just. Just go in on that, you know what I mean? Because everybody's, everybody's path is different. I've spoken to a lot of people who've gone through steroid withdrawal before, or, and, like, the people who go through the symptoms that you go through during this period, like, you can't, like, really compare this to any other thing. You know what I mean? So I've never had nerve pain before, but I can't talk to a diabetic about their, you know, diabetic neuropathy, pain on their feet. Like, I understand this, but they don't understand what I'm going through. You know what I mean? So it helps to find people and actively search for people who have been through what you are going through or if they're still going through it, have that conversation. Because if you can just find one person that's kind of. That can meet you on that level and that knows exactly what you're talking about and what you're going through and all the things that makes the world difference, it just takes one. It doesn't have to be like a full room of people. Just be one person in just one conversation.
[01:00:51] Valerie: Have you ever thought about being a hub for that, for what you've been through?
[01:00:57] Lili: I think now I'm more. A little bit more suited for it. I think even a few years ago, I was. I was still holding a lot of anger against, like, pharmaceuticals and, you know, the western medicine thing. I still. I still feel sort of a little way about that. I'm working. I'm working through that, but I feel like my feelings on that are for my family that's going through top go steroid withdrawal right now. You know what I mean? I want to be their voice but at the same time, I also have been a medical professional for over 20 years, so I know a lot of things that they don't know. So that's why I'm a little bit more passionate about talking about that. So again, it's kind of choosing the right verbiage so that the message gets heard and that I'm not bringing out my soapbox every time. You know what I mean? So I'm negotiating that path right now and finding that balance. But, yeah, I had some issues last year, so.
[01:01:57] Valerie: All right.
[01:01:58] Lili: Yeah.
[01:01:59] Valerie: So if people want to reach out or learn more about what you do, is there any way to get in touch or like an Instagram or anything?
[01:02:07] Lili: Yeah, absolutely. So I'm on Instagram is where I'm most active. But my professional page is Lily waves LBC. So. Lily l I l I waves waveslbc. And. Yeah, you're in the Long beach area. Yeah.
[01:02:25] Valerie: Yeah. All right. Thank you so much, Lily. It's been an awesome conversation.
[01:02:30] Lili: Yeah. Thank you for having me, Val. Appreciate it. I was thinking about it after I. After we just hung up and I was like, you know what? From all the little stink that I made. Cause I made a little bit of a stink last year in the topical steroid withdrawal community by a few posts that I put up. And if I didn't put a little bit of truth on this one, then, you know, I can't really post and be like, I talked to about topical steroid withdrawal. Oh. But didn't really bring the oomph that I brought last year. But what I was gonna. What I was gonna say is that there is people in the mainstream, they don't know about topical steroid withdrawal. And the thing that they don't know about it is that it's been around. It's not like it's been around, probably been around for a while since they actually came out with synthetic steroids back in the 1950s. But the one doctor who coined the term topical steroid withdrawal actually started taking care of these patients in the 1980s. So I'm 43, so I was born in 1980. So he started to take care of these patients when I was. When I was born. And he's here in Los Angeles, California. And the tricky thing about it, he's done papers. He's seen, I think he said that he's treated anywhere from like 5000, 7000 patients or something over the course of his decades of taking care of these patients. And I know for me, in my nursing career, I've taken care of over 10,000 patients in the hospital setting alone. You know, even though it's for a twelve hour shift. But he's had the experience and the knowledge, he's written papers about it. He's had the experience to back it up. But why none of his colleagues know about his work, why none of his colleagues invite him to any conferences that take place for like dermatology conferences in the United States? Now we're here, you know what I mean? And, you know, like, and for me, I made the decision just to go cold turkey, not knowing that this could be a possibility after stopping these, after stopping this prescribed medication. Because this one doctor has been working for decades with patients who are going through this. There's no reason why other physicians should not know about this. And that's where I have my issue, especially as a medical professional. The fact that just one doctor has been doing this work for decades, but doctors are still prescribing like very, very high potency, very, very strong steroids to infants, to babies just because they have the little rosy cheeks and they're automatically prescribed. And that's where I have issue with our western medical model right now, whether it's just a matter of the information isn't being properly disseminated to the medical professionals that it's relevant to. But even, you know, I went to an acupuncturist and I told her that I stopped my, I stopped using my steroids cold turkey. And her, her face was like, like she knew, she knew. But western medical doctors, they're like, oh, well, there's a disconnect there. And that's where I have a problem as a nurse, because we worry about informed consent with our patients just to do a simple procedure, you know what I mean? But it seems that there's not informed consent when taking these prescribed pharmaceuticals for years, not understanding what's going to happen years down the road. That's why our western medical model, we do the traumatic stuff very well, we do the broken bones and all that. We do that very well. When it comes to the chronic stuff, we're doing a huge disservice to the, to the patients. Patients are, they're not being told the whole story and they're just presenting with symptoms and relying on medical professionals to, you know, prescribe something instead of really look at, well, what is your lifestyle? What are you eating? What are you drinking? How's your sleep? All these things. And that's where I take issue. This information has been around for decades. Why aren't people popping off?
[01:07:01] Valerie: So for people who don't know, which is probably the majority of people. What are the symptoms of topical steroid?
[01:07:09] Lili: Okay, so sorry. So, to put it in perspective, topical steroid withdrawal is a phenomenon that occurs when a patient can use either prescribed topical steroid for, you know, it could be for psoriasis, eczema, it could be for just a random rash that they got while they were on a trip somewhere. You know what I mean? Or they could use an over the counter, very, very low potency ones. A lot of people have gone through steroid withdrawal with that one. You use it for a specific amount of time, and then you stop. When you stop, the body starts to. The rash or whatever starts to come back, and it starts to come back worse. That's probably an indication that there was some dependency that formed on the steroid itself, because when. When we put the topical steroid on the skin, we're telling our bodies to stop making your own cortisol. We'll do this. And that helps the inflammation. Steroids do what they're supposed to do. What happens in topical steroid withdrawal is that when they stop doing what they're prescribed to do because the body's developed a dependency or a physical tolerance to that, to that pharmaceutical, and it's no longer functioning the same way.
[01:08:21] Valerie: Got it.
[01:08:22] Lili: Yeah. So it could be for. It could be over just like a few months even. But for a majority of us who have been going through it, we've been using it for, you know, I use topical stories for over 30 years and not like every day, you know what I mean? But, like, especially when it would get colder in the fall and the wintertime, that's when mine would act up the most. When it was in the summertime, in the springtime, and I'd be outside and I'd be warm and I'd be sweating and everything, then my skin would be great. But, yeah, great.
[01:08:50] Valerie: Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I'm sure not a lot of people know that. And.
[01:08:56] Lili: Yeah, and. But the one thing that I am, that I am happy about, that it is getting more attention. The actual doctor who has been. Who's been working with these patients for all these decades, his name is Doctor Marvin Rappaport. So if anybody who's watching or listening to this podcast wants to ask, actually, you know, go down a little rabbit hole on YouTube, go find him. Doctor Marvin Rapaport. I believe it's rapport. And he literally has, for the last few months, been doing interviews, one on one interviews with one of his patients that he treated for topical steroid withdrawal and just going real deep into all of the questions, and he tells a lot of stuff that. He tells a lot of things that haven't been talked about, like the fact that they stopped, you know, publishing his papers, stuff like that.
[01:09:43] Valerie: All right.
[01:09:46] Lili: That was that.
[01:09:47] Valerie: All right, thank you.
